Oranum- Pirating decks

As the Tarot Trading moderator I can verify that any threads either selling, trading or looking for decks that are known to be pirated are removed. I remove many threads for the Russian Buckland Romani decks, the Hello Kitty deck and just yesterday a thread searching for this pirated VR deck was removed.
Pirated decks are not allowed to be sold or traded here so there really is nothing to be confused about nicky.

Dee Ell said:

(And none of my anger is directed at you Nicky - I hope you know that)

My anger on this topic is directed at the misperceptions and ignorance surrounding creative copyright, digital theft, pirated goods for sale, and companies that COULD license artists' designs & products but choose to steal them instead: http://www.fastcodesign.com/3020194/how-a-company-gets-away-with-stealing-independent-designers-work

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I assumed you aren't mad at me

I wonder which is morally worse- bootlegging decks from the rich, bootlegging decks from the not as rich, or copyright infringement - I have seen quite a few decks over the years by people using images they simply lifted from the web- then stating they are only using them for personal use when they were called out ...fast forward they are selling decks...
It all seems one in the same to me - I wonder what other's think- I noticed you differentiated between a small publisher and a large one - I think I get madder about the copyright stuff from web images... I guess everyone has a line in the sand.

nicky

Sulis said:

As the Tarot Trading moderator I can verify that any threads either selling, trading or looking for decks that are known to be pirated are removed. I remove many threads for the Russian Buckland Romani decks, the Hello Kitty deck and just yesterday a thread searching for this pirated VR deck was removed.
Pirated decks are not allowed to be sold or traded here so there really is nothing to be confused about nicky.

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Thanks Sulis, I misunderstood Alta.

cheers,
nicky

nicky, in your second example they acknowledge that it's "fishy" ie that it isn't legitimate.

nicky said:

I assumed you aren't mad at me

I wonder which is morally worse- bootlegging decks from the rich, bootlegging decks from the not as rich, or copyright infringement - I have seen quite a few decks over the years by people using images they simply lifted from the web- then stating they are only using them for personal use when they were called out ...fast forward they are selling decks...
It all seems one in the same to me - I wonder what other's think- I noticed you differentiated between a small publisher and a large one - I think I get madder about the copyright stuff from web images... I guess everyone has a line in the sand.

nicky

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To clarify, I actually never said I was okay with people bootlegging bigger companies' products - I was just attempting to answer your original question about why people on AT seemed to be ok with all of the Rohrig copies but not these Victorian Romantic copies.

If you look at my first reply I'm pretty sure I said that answer would be "my guess" bc I don't actually differentiate but could see how people might (e.g. the way some people are fine stealing from a huge chain store but not from a locally owned mom & pop shop...)

Dee Ell said:

To clarify, I actually never said I was okay with people bootlegging bigger companies' products - I was just attempting to answer your original question about why people on AT seemed to be ok with all of the Rohrig copies but not these Victorian Romantic copies.

If you look at my first reply I'm pretty sure I said that answer would be "my guess" bc I don't actually differentiate but could see how people might (e.g. the way some people are fine stealing from a huge chain store but not from a locally owned mom & pop shop...)

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gotcha - and thanks for clarifying - I think you are correct in your guess though

nicky said:

But they are posted here - in fact it took like zero searching for these

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Since you singled me out in this thread by posting the direct link to my post, allow me to briefly clarify because it might be relevant to our discussion here on the pirated VR. Perhaps you misread my intentions and didn't consider the full thread. I was agreeing with the previous poster in that thread that the seller was a bootlegger and to warn others who were seeking that deck to avoid bootleggers entirely. Very much like we're doing here.

AnemoneRosie said:

nicky, in your second example they acknowledge that it's "fishy" ie that it isn't legitimate.

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Yes. Thank you.

To stay on topic, I've heard many terrible stories about pirated decks. But Oranum seems to be a new level of terrible. Since Oranum is a company, I wonder what kind of serious legal ramifications they could face for pirating and selling the VR.

I was intrigued to hear of someone searching for the Oranum deck. Perhaps ironically its very short shelf life will make it somewhat of a rarity and its infamy fan the flames of desire for this shoddy little deck.
As a fellow creator I would just like to add although some decks are put out by larger faceless companies, at the root of this enterprise is an often living deck artist who is likely not earning a living from a tiny royalty payment which is definitely effected by piracy. All is mom and pop at the hundreds of hours deck art level.

I was searching for the deck... well because I wanted one. It's no different then people going after the Peanuts (which did not have permission to use CS characters.) The Hello Kitty (ALSO no permission to use another artists designs) Or the HEX. How come we can be forgiving of those? People clamor for collage decks of art you know very well that the creator just grabbed off the internet willy nilly to make their deck because they WANTED that picture. I bet many would be hard pressed to produce the release forms for each and every image they used so that the original artist either got credit or compensation. Yet there is no boycott of these decks.

A question to people about the 'big faceless' companies. Just how big do you think these companies are? I'm serious. How many people do you think work at theses "big faceless" companies? You might be shocked to know that most of these companies have less then 50 people working in their 'big faceless' offices. Is that what you consider big? Most likely there are more people being employed at your local crop share farm then at some of these 'big faceless' companies.

According to Wikipedia: Small businesses range from 15 employees under the Australian Fair Work Act 2009, 50 employees according to the definition used by the European Union, and fewer than 500 employees to qualify for many U.S. Small Business Administration programs.

So ALL the "big faceless" companies are very small.


(off of soap box)

I've been thinking recently about these bootlegged decks and, as one who is bemused by the proliferation of bootleg Rohrigs, I wonder whether Mr Rohrig hasn't been chasing up all the counterfeit copies and word has got round and so it's seen as easy game. I just wondered whether this was a factor.

As Regards MRPs battle with Oranum, I know that this is one of many battles - although I don't have details, I get the impression it has been one of the most draining yet. People need to be seen actively stamping out counterfeits - a full time job in itself - otherwise the legal question would be "why is this suddenly an issue now? Why didn't you do something before?"

Either way it's ugly. People on the internet can be very brazen.