suit and element

Whatsawhosit

Why use suits at all, don't they represent elements?
 

Nemia

They're associated with elements but don't represent them, I'd say.

Swords are more than a symbol of air. They tell a story of their own that the element air on its own doesn't. They cut - which means they're associated with analytical abilities, separation and taking things apart. They're a symbol of fairness and justice. They're a weapon. They're made from metal that comes from the earth, honed using fire, tempered in water. They're associated with warriors, knights - the foundation of aristocracy that was a cast of fighters first, between the authority of the king/emperor and the upwards pressure from the people.

Swords tell stories. And so do all other suit symbols.

That makes it possible to switch elemental associations.
 

Zephyros

The suits are more like expressions of the elements, one comes out of the other. Reading with elements alone is too abstract so the suits are kind of their "outer veils." As Nemia said, they flesh out the otherwise simple elements. One could also think of the elements dynamic tendencies rather than any fixed idea.
 

Barleywine

I'm no historian but as I understand it, the suits (as Batons, Cups, Swords and Coins) existed in tarot usage long before the elements (as well as the astrological and qabalistic correspondences) we use today were codified in the 19th century. As Nemia noted, the "implements" represented by the suits have associations beyond what the elements signify, although they aren't necessarily inconsistent with one another. Some inconsistency does arise when you try to bring playing-card suits into the picture, but they too can be reconciled. I blend the traditional suit meanings with the elemental overlay when I read. Not everyone is aware of the esoteric nature of elemental and astrological Fire, but they can relate to the more pragmatic Wands ideas of initiative, enterprise, ambition, desire and the possibility of risk-taking.
 

CrystalSeas

Why use suits at all, don't they represent elements?

Which elements?
Is Air Wands or Swords
Is Fire Wands or Swords

There isn't even any agreement as to which elements go with which suits.
 

Barleywine

Which elements?
Is Air Wands or Swords
Is Fire Wands or Swords

There isn't even any agreement as to which elements go with which suits.

Now that you mention it, it gets even worse than that. Joseph Maxwell related Wands to Earth, Swords to Fire and Pentacles to Air. I just stick with the Golden Dawn attributions since they seem to have the best track record. If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.
 

nisaba

Why use suits at all, don't they represent elements?

In some of the decks I have the suits are called Earth, Water, Air and Fire.

At the very least, sticks (Wands), hollow things (Cups) and sharp things (Swords), and very likely shiny things (coins/Pentacles) speak to very deep parts of the human condition, more symbolically accessible than just raw Fire, Air, Water and Earth.

The better Tarot taps into you, the better you can use Tarot.
 

Barleywine

I should also mention that a grounding in astrology (and especially traditional astrology) is a valuable asset in understanding how the classical elements work with tarot. A study of the "humours" is also useful.
 

Nemia

I agree with Barleywine. A good basic discussion of these principles, based on Greek medicine and cosmology, can be found in Anthony Louis' Tarot Beyond the Basics. And Paul Huson explains the evolution of the suit signs, very interesting, too.
 

Zephyros

I agree with the previous two posters. I will add that familiarity with the relevant mythology also helps in adding insight as to what the general symbolism of the suits is meant to convey. Plus the stories are really good, so that's always fun. It helps in understanding the background and mindset of the people who codified these suits.

For example, with the Cups one could read the Grail legends. There are several to choose from and they're all filled with Cups symbolism. The two "main" ones are those that deal with Amfortas and then the hybrid with King Arthur. There's also Percival, a coming of age story in which he thrusts a spear into the Grail, a screamingly obvious metaphor. Cool stories. :)

With the Wands there are the stories of Orpheus plus all the Moses stuff in the Old Testament.

With Swords King Arthur again comes to mind, especially the story about Balin and Balan, two brothers who shared a cursed sword. Excalibur, of course, Arthur's symbol of his wise and just reign.

My point is that these symbols sprouted from the culture they were fostered in, and have connections and offshoots everywhere.