Newbie Q

Rachx

Hi there I am very new to astrology and I apologise so far in advance of my newbie question which is how important is knowing the time of your birth? I know where I was born I just don't know what time. Thank you in advance x
 

Etene

It's absolutely vital to have as precise of a time and location as possible, in theory...

In practice
, you make do with what you have.

Astrology not only predates, but in its own way, inspired the sciences that let us measure time and space. Historical astrologers have done their work with very approximate figures, and they did well enough that their errors were not sufficient to undermine the art itself.

What matters is understanding the consequences of the imprecision you're working with. For example, having a good location but only a calendar date means that you do not know the following:
1. Ascendant, Midhaven, and other house cusps.
2. Moon's position, only a guess of its noon-time position ±7° of longitude.
3. Calculated points based on the above, such as the Lot of Fortune, etc.
4. Which planets are and aren't dignified by sect, quadrant, house, etc.

However, except for perhaps a few details that happened to change that day, the rest of the chart you may draw for noon that day is valid enough to be useful. Significant life-long effects shown by aspects and particular planetary positions may still be read. But the limitation of such a chart is that it's as applicable for the native as for anybody born in the same place that day, it's not personal. I'm reminded of the anecdote about the ironmonger and King of England, born about the same moment, living very different lives but having important dates when their lifestyles changed in common.

Predictive techniques may be useful for trying to rectify the chart, which involves coarsely testing times and trying to tune the chart until it describes known biographical information. It's not an easy task and some discredit the practice, but it's an option when you haven't many alternatives. However, first you would hope to find any more information if possible. Even as little as before/after dawn/noon/sunset helps a lot.
 

Minderwiz

Etene's explanation is virtually spot on. It's the Ascending sign and degree for the moment of birth which makes the chart personal, without it, you will have difficulty deciding how the features of a more generic chart (usually set for Sunrise, or Noon) actually are going to play out in your life. Over time you might be able to use experience to tie down some of those features and begin to identify in what areas of life they manifest. In turn that might enable you to fix one or two other areas and add some more colour to your understanding.

However there are other things you can do. Try your parents, uncles, aunts, etc. to see if any of them can give you an approximate time. Some countries put the time of birth on a full birth certificate, so try that. You might even be able to access your mother's medical records relating to your birth. Assuming that this doesn't produce a bulls-eye, you might still achieve an approximate time, which could be used by a skilled Astrologer, as the basis for a rectification.

That process won't guarantee that you come out with the actual time of your birth but it's likely to produce a chart that 'works' for your life up to the present. It will probably need tweeking as time passes but it can help a lot.

If you just want the best you can do, at low or no cost then use the approximation as your birth time. If you don't have an approximation then use a chart for Sunrise (which ensures that your Sun sign is your Ascendant, or for Noon, which as Etene points out minimises the average error on the Moon's placement.
 

Rachx

It's absolutely vital to have as precise of a time and location as possible, in theory...



In practice
, you make do with what you have.



Astrology not only predates, but in its own way, inspired the sciences that let us measure time and space. Historical astrologers have done their work with very approximate figures, and they did well enough that their errors were not sufficient to undermine the art itself.



What matters is understanding the consequences of the imprecision you're working with. For example, having a good location but only a calendar date means that you do not know the following:

1. Ascendant, Midhaven, and other house cusps.

2. Moon's position, only a guess of its noon-time position ±7° of longitude.

3. Calculated points based on the above, such as the Lot of Fortune, etc.

4. Which planets are and aren't dignified by sect, quadrant, house, etc.



However, except for perhaps a few details that happened to change that day, the rest of the chart you may draw for noon that day is valid enough to be useful. Significant life-long effects shown by aspects and particular planetary positions may still be read. But the limitation of such a chart is that it's as applicable for the native as for anybody born in the same place that day, it's not personal. I'm reminded of the anecdote about the ironmonger and King of England, born about the same moment, living very different lives but having important dates when their lifestyles changed in common.



Predictive techniques may be useful for trying to rectify the chart, which involves coarsely testing times and trying to tune the chart until it describes known biographical information. It's not an easy task and some discredit the practice, but it's an option when you haven't many alternatives. However, first you would hope to find any more information if possible. Even as little as before/after dawn/noon/sunset helps a lot.



Thank you that helps so much. I will try my aunt and uncle who may have a time. Even an approximate time may help so that is good to know. Thank you xxx
 

Rachx

Etene's explanation is virtually spot on. It's the Ascending sign and degree for the moment of birth which makes the chart personal, without it, you will have difficulty deciding how the features of a more generic chart (usually set for Sunrise, or Noon) actually are going to play out in your life. Over time you might be able to use experience to tie down some of those features and begin to identify in what areas of life they manifest. In turn that might enable you to fix one or two other areas and add some more colour to your understanding.



However there are other things you can do. Try your parents, uncles, aunts, etc. to see if any of them can give you an approximate time. Some countries put the time of birth on a full birth certificate, so try that. You might even be able to access your mother's medical records relating to your birth. Assuming that this doesn't produce a bulls-eye, you might still achieve an approximate time, which could be used by a skilled Astrologer, as the basis for a rectification.



That process won't guarantee that you come out with the actual time of your birth but it's likely to produce a chart that 'works' for your life up to the present. It will probably need tweeking as time passes but it can help a lot.



If you just want the best you can do, at low or no cost then use the approximation as your birth time. If you don't have an approximation then use a chart for Sunrise (which ensures that your Sun sign is your Ascendant, or for Noon, which as Etene points out minimises the average error on the Moon's placement.



Thank you minderwiz I will deffo speak to my relatives to see if they can recall my time and if not I will attempt some fine tuning - thank you so much xx
 

ihcoyc

There are a number of things that can be done if your birth time can't even be pinned down vaguely.

One traditional method is to count back nine months to the moment of conception, assuming you were carried to full term. The moon sign at conception is the rising sign at birth. That at least gives you a two hour window.

Another is to make a guess. Your ascendant should govern your physical appearance. Some signs are more pronounced than others -- Leo, Capricorn, Scorpio -- but read traditional descriptions of what natives with those rising signs look at and find which one seems most comfortable to you.
 

Rachx

There are a number of things that can be done if your birth time can't even be pinned down vaguely.



One traditional method is to count back nine months to the moment of conception, assuming you were carried to full term. The moon sign at conception is the rising sign at birth. That at least gives you a two hour window.



Another is to make a guess. Your ascendant should govern your physical appearance. Some signs are more pronounced than others -- Leo, Capricorn, Scorpio -- but read traditional descriptions of what natives with those rising signs look at and find which one seems most comfortable to you.



Oh wow that's a really interesting way of doing it. Thank you for this. I will ask my relatives and then use this method - thank you for your help xx