Thoth: Loves newbies, hates muddlers?

Zephyros

He really put Harris through the wringer. She must have had the patience of a saint to deal with his perfectionism.

It's what she wanted. Although every aspect of the deck was approved by him, it was her admiration for him that was the impetus for it in the first place. His original plan for the deck was something much more modest, probably along the lines of a regular Golden Dawn deck. She was the one who pushed him to take on such an ambitious undertaking.

But they were equal partners. He taught her magick while she gave him a stipend and did the deck. She wasn't the meek and submissive silent partner that some modern sensationalist writers like to portray her as.
 

Awakened Queen

It's what she wanted. Although every aspect of the deck was approved by him, it was her admiration for him that was the impetus for it in the first place. His original plan for the deck was something much more modest, probably along the lines of a regular Golden Dawn deck. She was the one who pushed him to take on such an ambitious undertaking.

But they were equal partners. He taught her magick while she gave him a stipend and did the deck. She wasn't the meek and submissive silent partner that some modern sensationalist writers like to portray her as.

I'll have to read up on it more. I always thought he drove her crazy, because he was so demanding. I'm glad she got something out of it.
 

smw

My experience with the Thoth has been an interesting one. When I had just started learning Tarot, I remember picking up the Thoth and getting crystal clear, eerie accurate readings with it. The clarity was such that it would make me laugh out loud.

Time have passed, and I have learned a lot, but not enough. Mostly what happens is that the reader in me resists sticking to a particular system, or even making up one, and insists instead in muddling through them all, picking up bits and pieces here and there, using or discarding them at whim. I try to convince this part of me to be more consistent, more thorough, but it just won't listen.

And alas, as I have discovered, at this stage of my learning, the Thoth is closed to me. I can of course lay down the cards and parrot learned meanings, but can't really see anything anymore, and especially not the big picture.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this?

When I first got the Thoth, it did seem to give a general clear message, though with my inexperience of the meanings (and with Tarot generally) there wasn't much depth that I could interpret at least, though the essential elements I think came to my attention.

In regard to the big picture, I do find there is a lot to each card so that can be overwhelming. I tend to just try and understand the elements or ideas underlying the cards and making a few links to others. I must admit I don't really have a structured approach, more ad hoc, probably not the most helpful way, also a kind of muddled approach, :laugh: but it suits me at the moment. When I see a thread (s) about a particular card or cards I will use that to try and get a hook in. Then on re -reading the book meanings, I find they make more real sense and I get a little more understanding.

My natural inclination is to read intuitively, I think, and if I look at the cards, for example the lion on Art has popped out saying 'hello there' and I mistakenly thought the sphinxes on the chariot were fidgeting around...so it can be a bit frustrating with the slowness of learning the framework of meanings first. Balancing the thinking, more analytic side with free flow, I do find difficult, different parts of the brain I reckon... I think though in the long run it is worth the stretch and can help avoid purely subjective readings. In my case that could easily be all about me, myself and I :joke:

eta... I am reminded of something I read about different ways of thinking - global (the big picture maybe) and detailed linear.

http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/are-you-a-linear-or-global-thinker
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/linear-thinking-vs-global-thinking.html
 

Thoughtful

smw l like the links you gave, seems l start out linear like wanting to learn the Thoth by the book literally, but then when l look at the cards, rather like you intuition takes over and l run amok globally :surprise: do you think there is hope for us.
Will be interested to know how you get on with your study of Thoth.
 

Always Wondering

What I'm trying to say is that I think Crowley intended his deck to be picked up and read, no blinds, no questions asked. The depth of the reading would depend on the reader's preparation.

This is a nice thought, and I have often felt an openness such as this with the Thoth Tarot. Do as thy wilt, comes through loud and clear. But it is not true. In fact I would suggest Crowley intended this deck as a sort of work book of a very exacting and specific system.

Crowley said:
It seems important that you should understand my motives. To me this Work on the Tarot is an Encyclopaedia of all serious “occult” philosophy. It is a standard book of reference, which will determine the entire course of mystical and magical thought for the next 2000 years. My one anxiety is that it should be saved from danger of destruction, by being reproduced in permanent form, and distributed in as many distant places as may be. I am not anxious to profit financially; if I had the capital available in this country, I should send (say) 200 copies to State Libraries in all parts of the world, and as many more to my principal representatives.

Reprinted by DuQuette in Understanding Aliester Crowley's Thoth Tarot Page 7, Chapter One.


It doesn't explain why it's so closed to me now --although ravenest may have a point, or at least I hope that's close to the case here :).

I think so. Perhaps you have a natural affinity for things occult, meaning hidden or secret, which are certainly unknown. Your open mind will serve you, or anyone, well in understanding Crowley and his deck, you may even come to understand yourself better. I for one have days and weeks when this deck seams to close down on me. Other times it feels as open and bright as the Sun and as obvious as the nose on my face. :laugh: It is my belief this say more about me and my current state of mind than the deck itself.



AW
 

FLizarraga

This is a nice thought, and I have often felt an openness such as this with the Thoth Tarot. Do as thy wilt, comes through loud and clear. But it is not true. In fact I would suggest Crowley intended this deck as a sort of work book of a very exacting and specific system.

Your post is REALLY enlightening. :thumbsup:

But I must clarify myself on this point. I completely agree with what you say (and demonstrate) about the deck being a workbook "of a very exacting and specific system." What I meant about its openness was that I feel Crowley designed the deck so the system was accessible at different levels. The uninitiated would be able to do a reading at gut level or at a deeper spiritual level, or both, depending on her/his personal evolution, guided by the combination of visual factors (images, richness of the Golden Dawn colors, titles).

So in my mind it's not a "do as thy wilt," but the other way around, access to a certain level of a precise knowledge, not "you can interpret this your own way" at all. I don't think such a deck was created so people would come and say "Oh, I see butterflies, and the Magician means that you'll have a nice vacation."
 

Barleywine

I for one have days and weeks when this deck seams to close down on me. Other times it feels as open and bright as the Sun and as obvious as the nose on my face. :laugh:

All I have to do as a remedial exercise is lay some of the Thoth cards out next to their counterparts from virtually any other deck and I'm instantly reminded of its almost universal superiority. It can be breathtaking, especially some of the court and pip cards. Whenever I'm helping someone interpret a tarot reading, I typically parallel the spread with the Thoth version becuase that's what speaks to me most clearly.
 

Thoughtful

Just been looking at a video on youtube of Paul Hughes Barlow talking about the Book of Thoth. He states AC never put the card meanings in his book, that its to do with magical or magic power. He also states that in DuQuette's book meanings are given.
Can someone give more explanation on this because if AC gave no meanings where then did DuQuette get the meanings.

Please excuse my ignorance as you know by now l am a beginner to the Thoth.
 

Barleywine

Just been looking at a video on youtube of Paul Hughes Barlow talking about the Book of Thoth. He states AC never put the card meanings in his book, that its to do with magical or magic power. He also states that in DuQuette's book meanings are given.
Can someone give more explanation on this because if AC gave no meanings where then did DuQuette get the meanings.

Please excuse my ignorance as you know by now l am a beginner to the Thoth.

Oh really? Does he say where he thinks they came from? So many of them look, smell, taste and feel like Crowley's uniquely sardonic viewpoint that I find it hard to believe they came from some hack who was hired to append them. I think I agree with PHB on Part One, The Theory of the Tarot, but have seen nothing to support him in Parts Two, Three and IV.
 

Always Wondering

Your post is REALLY enlightening. :thumbsup:

But I must clarify myself on this point. I completely agree with what you say (and demonstrate) about the deck being a workbook "of a very exacting and specific system." What I meant about its openness was that I feel Crowley designed the deck so the system was accessible at different levels. The uninitiated would be able to do a reading at gut level or at a deeper spiritual level, or both, depending on her/his personal evolution, guided by the combination of visual factors (images, richness of the Golden Dawn colors, titles).

I don't disagree with you on a general note.

All I can say is that my personal evolution, as a gut level reader when I first came to this deck, was such that it got me into some trouble. And it would have been much worse if I didn't have some people on this forum to help me see the difference between self-will run riot, and Do As Thy WILT.

But that's just me and I feel the need to throw out my cautionary tale every once in a while. :laugh:

AW