Predictive vs lessons

Padma said:

I find that Lenormand is a far more precise tool for effective "fortune telling", to be sure. However, for a simple system, it has many shades of language it uses to convey its message.

But I also think the tarot does it very admirably as well. It is sarcastic, funny, nuanced, and sometimes incredibly compassionate.

I have come to the conclusion that the tarot has been so over-complicated over time with a baggage-load of theories, prejudices, heavy jargon (both scientific and spiritual) and over-analysis, both scientific and intellectual, that its primary function and voice is being completely lost.

How do I predict the future with the tarot? I look at the cards, and I listen to what I hear and see, and I relay that information to the person sitting for me. It is that simple.

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I agree with all of this.

But my opinion is that if you say "You should be open to being approached by a young man wearing his heart on his sleeve" as opposed to saying "you will meet a younger man who wears his heart on his sleeve"
you may feel you're saving face if they don't meet that person.

I would much rather predict the sitter would meet a younger man who wears his heart on his sleeve than to tell them to be open to it. If I predict wrong, no harm done. But if I tell someone to be open to this younger person and they take my advice, they could open themselves up to some kind of real jerk masquerading as a nice young man wearing his heart on his sleeve. It's like trying to be "a little bit pregnant". There's no such thing. It's better to just outright tell the sitter what you're seeing instead of trying to save face or kid yourself that you're just giving benign advice or guidance by playing footsie with wording.

I don't use the tarot for predictions, because I cannot confirm the validity of the prediction I see in the cards. I use it for advice, self-growth, and problem-solving instead.

Sometimes, however, my tarot deck gives me messages about the future and this is quite confusing to me when I don't even ask about the future that often. I have noticed that my readings occasionally seem to "happen." Those readings tend to contradict the subject by implying an answer that contradicts the question or by giving me different information.

I once had a spread predict success when I was concerned about the reason for my failure. I ended up avoiding the failure that I asked about. This is contradictory. I asked what caused my failure and it said I did not fail even though the circumstances certainly looked that way. So in reality, it was predicting my success. However, I did not see it like that since it was possible to see it in terms of my actual question.

Then there was that time a series of unconnected readings predicted my relationship when I wasn't even asking relationship-related questions.

Now, this brings me to my comfort level with predictive work. Yea, my tarot deck can predict things, but that doesn't mean that I am comfortable predicting things like "You will likely develop a relationship at some point soon." I also am not comfortable answering questions better left to professionals.

When it comes to predicting specific details like someone's hair color, I would not choose to restrict myself or anyone with the idea of looking for someone that looks a specific way. If I had any readers that asked me about their future lover's appearance, I would tell them I'm going to rephrase the question.

If I cannot say with confidence that I know my reader's life, I would probably ignore valuable predictions and focus on advice-giving.

Of course, I am quite aware that maybe I should work on gaining a level of comfort with predictive work. It isn't that bad as long as I am responsible with the way that I answer.

Grizabella said:

But my opinion is that if you say "You should be open to being approached by a young man wearing his heart on his sleeve" as opposed to saying "you will meet a younger man who wears his heart on his sleeve"
you may feel you're saving face if they don't meet that person.

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Yes, this exactly! Or even (for this particular question) turning over the Knight of Cups, interpreting it as being personal growth advice for her, and telling my unromantic querent "It would be good for you to be more romantic." She hasn't become the least bit more romantic since the relationship began but hearing from two readers that a romantic man would come into her life and would be a good match has certainly paid dividends for the both of them.

Shade said:

Yes, this exactly! Or even (for this particular question) turning over the Knight of Cups, interpreting it as being personal growth advice for her, and telling my unromantic querent "It would be good for you to be more romantic." She hasn't become the least bit more romantic since the relationship began but hearing from two readers that a romantic man would come into her life and would be a good match has certainly paid dividends for the both of them.

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Sometimes I see the cups as much more than emotion...they tend to lend themselves to any type of personal fulfillment. Perhaps KoC represented her quest for fulfillment! But yeah, placebo does amazing (sometimes scary) things

Grizabella said:

But my opinion is that if you say "You should be open to being approached by a young man wearing his heart on his sleeve" as opposed to saying "you will meet a younger man who wears his heart on his sleeve"
you may feel you're saving face if they don't meet that person.

I would much rather predict the sitter would meet a younger man who wears his heart on his sleeve than to tell them to be open to it. If I predict wrong, no harm done. But if I tell someone to be open to this younger person and they take my advice, they could open themselves up to some kind of real jerk masquerading as a nice young man wearing his heart on his sleeve. It's like trying to be "a little bit pregnant". There's no such thing. It's better to just outright tell the sitter what you're seeing instead of trying to save face or kid yourself that you're just giving benign advice or guidance by playing footsie with wording.

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Could not agree more.

I'd also suggest (not accusing everyone of it, before I am misinterpreted) that reading in this fashion gives the reader the default excuse of "You didn't follow my advice" when the querent feels the reading did not help them.

As the reader, the "mea culpa" is on you. If you don't feel comfortable reading in predictive fashion, which in one way or other all styles of reading are guilty of to some degree, you shouldn't read for anyone but yourself.

EyeAmEye said:

As the reader, the "mea culpa" is on you. If you don't feel comfortable reading in predictive fashion, which in one way or other all styles of reading are guilty of to some degree, you shouldn't read for anyone but yourself.

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So well put. Now it is I who could not agree more!

(and also, @Grizabella, really well put!)

EyeAmEye said:

Could not agree more.



I'd also suggest (not accusing everyone of it, before I am misinterpreted) that reading in this fashion gives the reader the default excuse of "You didn't follow my advice" when the querent feels the reading did not help them.



As the reader, the "mea culpa" is on you. If you don't feel comfortable reading in predictive fashion, which in one way or other all styles of reading are guilty of to some degree, you shouldn't read for anyone but yourself.

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I find reading for myself (and those close to me) much harder than reading for other people due to the intrinsic bias. I know what I want for me or them so I am "looking for the answer I want" instead of truly going by the cards.

Like I said, I believe in potential energy in the universe, and I am comfortable relating *potential*/general predictions, but I have just never had the feeling from a card to tell me things like "you will meet a tall man with dark hair and glasses in the next week or two who will give you advice, you should take it". My interp would be more "open yourself up to accepting and reaction to advice/constructive criticism in the future, should you meet someone knowledgeable in the next few weeks, it may pay off to take heed." Also, with androgyny being what it is today, I tend to not like to specify male or female as much (unless specified by the sitter before) knowing that a female can definitely have male qualities and vice versa.

To me, it's the phrasing that makes the difference. Perhaps someday I will see a super specific prediction, but until then I'll keep on keepin on this way

I would venture to say that anyone who actively seeks out a tarot reader for any reason other than curiosity is looking for personal advice or predictive insights, and more than likely both. I try to avoid giving unequivocal advice and attempt to arm my querents with insights (some of which are unavoidably predictive but I try to keep it in the realm of possibilities and likelihoods) that empower them to arrive at there own decisions. As I see it, if the cards can't provide at least a glimpse of the likely outcome of a matter, either the right question wasn't asked or the querent wasn't entirely serious about the reading in the first place. Another possibility is that the message is there but the querent - for whatever reason - isn't understanding or accepting it. In a nutshell, then, I'm more comfortable giving borderline predictive insights with some degree of confidence based on the testimony of the cards than personal advice that may blow up in my face.

Barleywine said:

I would venture to say that anyone who actively seeks out a tarot reader for any reason other than curiosity is looking for personal advice or predictive insights, and more than likely both. I try to avoid giving unequivocal advice and attempt to arm my querents with insights (some of which are unavoidably predictive but I try to keep it in the realm of possibilities and likelihoods) that empower them to arrive at there own decisions. As I see it, if the cards can't provide at least a glimpse of the likely outcome of a matter, either the right question wasn't asked or the querent wasn't entirely serious about the reading in the first place. Another possibility is that the message is there but the querent - for whatever reason - isn't understanding or accepting it. In a nutshell, then, I'm more comfortable giving borderline predictive insights with some degree of confidence based on the testimony of the cards than personal advice that may blow up in my face.

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See, agree with the "borderline predictive" part. If the sitter asks how a vacation will got two weeks,by pulling cards I'm technically predicting that the client will be alive in two weeks. So sure, anything dealing with future will be slightly predictive. My issue is with very specific predictions. I'm not against them, I just can't honestly saying EVER felt that kind of information from the cards

youareafool said:

See, agree with the "borderline predictive" part. If the sitter asks how a vacation will got two weeks,by pulling cards I'm technically predicting that the client will be alive in two weeks. So sure, anything dealing with future will be slightly predictive. My issue is with very specific predictions. I'm not against them, I just can't honestly saying EVER felt that kind of information from the cards

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I've seen it more reliably with Lenormand cards, which are focused more on mundane than psychological circumstances. But in either case I can't say that I've ever felt inspired to say flatly "This WILL happen." There are too many variables that can intervene to derail such a baldfaced prediction. That said, I've seen strong indications that have turned out to be accurate. But it's still vital to deliver such information to querents in a measured way that neither over-inflates nor unduly deflates their expectations. I like to focus on the most appropriate response to the eventuality rather than the foreshadowed causal factors themselves, since that is within the querent's power to modulate.