tmgrl2
kwaw said:
o
Another goodie!
Le Mat
o
Another goodie!kwaw
In A Ballet by Nijinska
In A Ballet by Nijinska
Like the fool of the tarot,
here, there and everywhere
with jestures full of zest,
this butterfly with her carnival
of dances, hostess of the hinds,
our girl with silver hair,
has left upon the blue train
to dance upon the beaches
on the far side shore of the Styx.
In her black pyjamas, so small,
so strong, she turns and leaps,
waves down to startled Charon,
and is caught in the arms of Nijinsky
on the far side shore of the Styx:
the count continues in Russian
without the miss of a beat,
as brother and sister dance
through Hades, along the far
side shore of the Styx,
to the sound of Stravinsky playing
an infernal cascade of old folk songs.
("Bronislava Nijinska Is Dead",
the review read, "at 811".)
Like the fool of the tarot,
here, there and everywhere
with jestures full of zest,
this butterfly with her carnival
of dances, hostess of the hinds,
our girl with silver hair,
has left upon the blue train
to dance upon the beaches
on the far side shore of the Styx.
In her black pyjamas, so small,
so strong, she turns and leaps,
waves down to startled Charon,
and is caught in the arms of Nijinsky
on the far side shore of the Styx:
the count continues in Russian
without the miss of a beat,
as brother and sister dance
through Hades, along the far
side shore of the Styx,
to the sound of Stravinsky playing
an infernal cascade of old folk songs.
("Bronislava Nijinska Is Dead",
the review read, "at 811".)
Psy
Rafaël said:
I sadly am not qualified to give a proffessional opinion here, but i did wanted to drop in and share with you the thoughts i'm having about Le Mat.
As you guys have already mentioned, Le Mat is the only numberless card. That made me think "Why does every other card HAVE a number, then?", and i thought about what it's said commonly about tarot: it's a series of steps, or STAGES to reach Heaven, the World, or whatever (that's a matter for another thread
). Now, All theses cards represent the stages needed to reach that goal; but the fool stands for the walker, as you have already mentioned.I find this truly fascinating, as i do feel it "fits" with the rest of the deck. This is my very personal impression on The Fool, which i created ONLY from simple everyday ideas. Think about this:
The Fool is the only card that moves. He somehow stands for CHANGE, but different from death, as death is a card on it's own. I feel the difference is that while the fool means "change of own beliefs and persectives", death is "the eternal change that reaps everything and everyone". The main difference would be that Death is just a STAGE, a stage that may be overcomed by the Walker, the fool. The Fool, on the other hand, stands for the movement BETWEEN THESE STAGES. This is why I quoted raphaels post: it is indeed a card apart for me too.
And that's why he has no number: he's not a stage, he's the movement between them.
Take this vision and the rest of the picture just fits in. No complicated social interpretation here, just a random fool not looking where he goes with a dog (or whatever THAT is XD) biting his leg.
-His bag with his belongings say "i don't have one home, a solid place to stay, but i wander with all i need with me", a clear example of why he's not a stage, other than the number.
-He's looking at the sky, and not looking at the floor he walks, for two reasons: one is that he's looking for something ELSE, above ground level. The other is that he may be discouraged to continue walking if he saw how rough the road gets ahead of him. His look at the sky shows why he needs to keep moving, like an ever pushing force that will never cease his longing for more evolution.
-The *animal* bites his leg, saying "this is comfortable, this is what you know, stay here, and don't move forward! Everything new will make you suffer, as where you're going the rules are new, and everything you think you know is a lie! Stay here, and be stable, and happy!". But this is no good for the fool, he's not meant to stay put, so he ignores the animal, and moves on.
-The cane symbolizes that even when he gets tired of walking, he just KEEPS doing it.
Summing up, i believe the fool stands for that very pushing desire we all living beings have in our interiors to keep growing, keep marching, even when we don't need to or the road ahead is difficult. It's the very spirit of evolution, the thrive to be BETTER. As such, he's not a stage, but the one who walks through them.
Tell me what you think about it
, i LOVED this in depth analysis.ETA:
Here's the link to my favourite fool card: it's the traditional marseille one, but with new coloring
. http://www.wischik.com/lu/tarot/major00.jpgBernice
I think he's numberless because he's foot-loose & fancy-free
However, when the cards were eventually numbered it is now known that it was for gaming purposes. Esoteric meanings of a Life Traveller or Spiritual Traveller were overlaid on the images at a much later time.
I try to keep my divinatory meanings as close as I can to the possible historical ideas that were abroard at the time & place of a decks' creation. So for me Le Mat is a homeless vagabond. Perhaps a little 'simple-minded'.......?
Bee
However, when the cards were eventually numbered it is now known that it was for gaming purposes. Esoteric meanings of a Life Traveller or Spiritual Traveller were overlaid on the images at a much later time.
I try to keep my divinatory meanings as close as I can to the possible historical ideas that were abroard at the time & place of a decks' creation. So for me Le Mat is a homeless vagabond. Perhaps a little 'simple-minded'.......?
Bee
Freddie
Cerulean said:
Hi All,
In my Oswald Wirth deck it is suggested that "Le fou" has a mask on.
http://www.tarot.com/tarot/decks/index.php?deckID=36&cardID=0
Good info all!!! Thanks
Freddie
kwaw
Bernice said:I think he's numberless because he's foot-loose & fancy-free
A little bit of Turkish: Deli (Fool, Lunatic, Devotee) Gün (Day) Bayram (Holiday)
Deliye her gün bayram.
Every day is a holiday for a fool.
Turkish Proverb
kwaw
A pound of nothing
is a heavy burden:
Poor fool -- stripped of all.
is a heavy burden:
Poor fool -- stripped of all.
Adrian Goldwetter
LEFOV > LE MAT
Hi all.
This thread is up and running for a really long time now (since 21-09-2002) and maybe some POVs have improved in those 14 (!) years - but not to my knowledge because in the specific places no editions happened.
There are so many detailed speculations that I can (and will) not refer to them in more detail because this would only lead to other speculative interpretations from more "intuitive" POVs.
I'd suggest instead to take another approach to solve the "naming" and "meaning" problem and that would be to take the authors and what they did create (in code sometimes > LLBATELEVER > Jean Noblet >
http://forum.tarothistory.com/viewt...sid=d40e87d1eb6b4ed6d6df085989be01d7&start=60) very seriously.
You all took very educated journeys to other places (Persia and Languedoc I liked the best but for other than the proposed reasons) and languages that are at the first sight far away from the countries Tarot graced with it's presence.
This post may not come your way in the usual manner and I apologize for that in advance but sometimes old shoes don't go all the way... or maybe they do - but you'll have to find and put them on in the 1st place
The 1st Tarot on French soil to our knowledge so far is the Jean Noblet from around 1650 - we shouldn't be nitpicking with some decades here I suppose.
Since he created this very artistic and often especially in this respect undervalued deck
( http://forum.tarothistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=16307#p16307 - and the following pages)
his LEFOV made it into the canonical TdMs with the same posture under the alias LE MAT that was pondered about here for 8 pages with 77 post and now I'm honored to add the 78th [sic!] one. Yay me!
So we should obviously start with the real meaning of LEFOV and proceed from there to LE MAT and the why of the name change.
The quite uneasy and unpractical posture of LEFOV could lead you further.
He is using TWO staves (the meaning of both in addition is explained here:
http://forum.tarothistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=16596#p16596
and the posts before that explain the "counting system" - so they could be interesting to read for readers interested in LEFOV's > LE MAT's chores too I assume.
He is carrying the stave with his bundle CROSSWISE what nobody would do - even if he would be crazy enough to use 2 staves for a journey by foot in the 1st place.
He holds his right arm with the strong shoulder in a quite awkward manner that is supposed to draw your attention to his "anatomical problem" > deformation (what is a serious hint at his "roots" because in a field of expertise nobody in this thread cared for in the past 14 years - or I did overlook it - if so my humble excuses! - it is a defining property and because of that The PMB homeless man is stricken with a GOITER).
Now you could say that a goiter and a bad shoulder have nothing in common - BUT that's the TRICK because when you take Jean with his inscription LEFOV seriously you would take the "V" for a real V and not for a disguised "U" and you would (maybe) reach the conclusion (because CODE you know... and LATIN is a language alchemists preferred AND weird abbreviations and tags to DISGUISE their intentions for the laymen) that LEFOV is short for FOVea.
I deem you should be accustomed to such weird SHORTAGES because you took and take "Nas" for NICOLAS (a far cry indeed considering that Nicolas Conver was born 1784-12-31 - Marseille (Bouches-du Rhône) and died 1833-03-26 - Marseille (Bouches-du Rhône) with an active period from 1809-1833.
This all and much more is well documented at the Bibliothèque nationale de France where a version of the deck with the tag "1760" on the 2 of coins found refuge.
No time machine was found though with his belongings to my knowledge - but some go even so far to a CONSIDER that the NasCONVER on the 2 of coins COULD be a PSEUDONYM. Wow!
Taking the LATIN road and the crush on weird words in those times in SECRET texts authors fell victim to often you could come to another conclusion (considering the CARD and the way it is depicted in on)...
...that doesn't stick to the topic I sadly believe. Maybe here around is a thread about The BATELEUR too?
If someone could point me there if - THAT would be simply great!
http://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb43706229t
http://www.translate-latin.com/de/worterbuch-latein-englisch/fovea
In the medical profession fovea is in use for many centuries now to describe the "pits" of the human body and there is a whole catalog of them when you care to look at wikipedia and medical tomes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fovea
For Jean's LEFOV 2 are of special interest:
The ARMPIT that is called in Latin axilla which is the biggest fovea the body has to offer:
Note please that French would attach a female article to fovea what Jean simply couldn't do because you all wouldn't have fallen for his cleverness.
http://wordinfo.info/results/fovea
So that was the armpit - one of many human foveae.
The 2nd of interest to "readers" of LEFOV should be the one which made it into "common" language: fovéola.
http://www.guide-vue.fr/glossaire/fovea
The Fovea centralis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fovea_centralis
This "pit" is responsible for or enables you to: acute vision what is the purpose for the dreamy (INNER vision too because where LEFOV comes from - and that is the cause for his correct place BETWEEN XX & XXI) head of a man on LEFOV's walking stick that is a denominatER for the system that Jean put to use in his deck because HE divides the card EXACTLY in 2 halfs (already explained in the above TH links:
http://forum.tarothistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=16581&sid=f22da9028a713c2c1a49d1b6cd2bec98#p16581
You may think that this conclusion about the 2nd Fovea sounds a bit unfounded because it was discovered here in the west a bit later - but since your attention was already drawn to his SHOULDER you could deduct from there too...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder_joint
Now you may reason that this is a lot to take in BUT it gets better still:
You may have noted above that fovea is a SMALL manifestation of a bigger event called FOSSA:
Now: because Latin and history and geography and common language The FOSSA is also an animal (some without specific knowledge would call it a CAT):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossa_(animal)
This animal has very interesting peculiarities in itself:
The anus is hidden in a special pouch and especially the FEMALES and their nether regions appear quite "male" - but let's go with a wiki quote:
This should have been more than enough stuff for legends to rise in the 17th century but there is still more.
This animal is limited to Madagascar since it developed there and etymologists assume that the colloquial name Fossa could have been derived from trade languages during the 1600s.
Madagascar was far away from France but it had for some time a French governor who experienced horrible events in his district:
http://www.edgeofexistence.org/mammals/species_info.php?id=537
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptoprocta_spelea
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Étienne_de_Flacourt
Translation from the above German text to English:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riesenfossa
During his reign some events took place with these Antambas/giant Fossas that looked like they had gone on a distinct killing spree for HUMANS that probably should have made it to the yellow press in France.
But in Jean's case there would have probably been no need for that channel because such things happened for a long time on Madagascar and since the 7th century Omani Arabs and Shirazi Persians established trading posts there and a great deal of their lore found it's way to the "old" world in writing and translation and by personal accounts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histo...d_Shirazi_Persians_.28from_the_7th_century.29
As Madagascan lore about the Fossa goes it has a lust for human entrails and starts with the nether parts by ripping them from the prey and so digging a hole to feed from.
This behavior should have been a trait of the gigantic variety (lions follow sometimes that pattern because the belly of nearly any prey is sooo soft... ) that possibly went extinct and so this creepy feeding style was transfered (in the lore) to the still surviving little rascals who were/are not capable of feeding on humans as long they are alive and kicking. So they became (in the mind) a nearly supernatural force that went hunting for the weak - like on the card.
This was never observed by zoologists but the LORE goes that way - and you see it right there depicted on the turf of LEFOV in it's small appearance that is endangered to be taken for a DOG - by later know-not-so-muchs (AEW for instance with his romantic take on the matter - BUT he and others incorporated the PIT still to show that they knew SOMETHING ).
Interesting still is that AEW (even when he did take the Fossa for a little dog) got the COLOR and the SIZE of the animal right (like Jean) because the YOUNG Fossa appears gray or nearly white and normally reaches up to 80 cm in body length with a similar long tail (Jean!).
http://www.jungledragon.com/specie/1477/fossa.html
(The site owner has published some very neat (especially ONE) pictures there that for the life of me I found no way to download for show here because it gives concerning the "creepiness" a much better impression as the wiki illustrations.)
AC made it a tiny little TIGER though on his starry eyed green monster card to show that HE knew SOMETHING TOO - but not so much. Otherwise he wouldn't have dared to change the LINES of the centuries that he did not understand a BIT - all the while searching for DETAILS to make fun of them in his dumbed down "interpretations" of wisdom.
So that was LEFOV.
Now the change to LE MAT and why and what it REALLY means
MAT has clearly no standing as a noun in the French language - but you should try to add a circumflex "Â/â" to the "A" and voilà: Le Mât is ready to set sails to roam the 7 seas of wonder because he now is well known as: The MAST.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumflex
When you read thoroughly through the wiki text about that tiny thing you may understand that the circumflex is CODE in itself but now I'm getting clearly ahead of myself too...
His employer LE BATELIER that came to you disguised and misunderstood as LE BATELEUR (already explained in the above TH link) wouldn't know how to keep the “Toue Cabanée" in check and the 20 passengers too.
The above is a qoute from my thread PDF (page 24) for TH:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/241968716/Tarotee-The-Back-Door-To-The-Secret-tarothistory-dot-com-pdf
Please ask if you think that I have anything forgotten to mention or you need more explanations on some matters and please note that this was NOT about the meaning of the card itself!
I'd be happy to tell - so don't be shy.
Adrian
Hi all.
This thread is up and running for a really long time now (since 21-09-2002) and maybe some POVs have improved in those 14 (!) years - but not to my knowledge because in the specific places no editions happened.
There are so many detailed speculations that I can (and will) not refer to them in more detail because this would only lead to other speculative interpretations from more "intuitive" POVs.
I'd suggest instead to take another approach to solve the "naming" and "meaning" problem and that would be to take the authors and what they did create (in code sometimes > LLBATELEVER > Jean Noblet >
http://forum.tarothistory.com/viewt...sid=d40e87d1eb6b4ed6d6df085989be01d7&start=60) very seriously.
You all took very educated journeys to other places (Persia and Languedoc I liked the best but for other than the proposed reasons) and languages that are at the first sight far away from the countries Tarot graced with it's presence.
This post may not come your way in the usual manner and I apologize for that in advance but sometimes old shoes don't go all the way... or maybe they do - but you'll have to find and put them on in the 1st place
The 1st Tarot on French soil to our knowledge so far is the Jean Noblet from around 1650 - we shouldn't be nitpicking with some decades here I suppose.
Since he created this very artistic and often especially in this respect undervalued deck
( http://forum.tarothistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=16307#p16307 - and the following pages)
his LEFOV made it into the canonical TdMs with the same posture under the alias LE MAT that was pondered about here for 8 pages with 77 post and now I'm honored to add the 78th [sic!] one. Yay me!
So we should obviously start with the real meaning of LEFOV and proceed from there to LE MAT and the why of the name change.
The quite uneasy and unpractical posture of LEFOV could lead you further.
He is using TWO staves (the meaning of both in addition is explained here:
http://forum.tarothistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=16596#p16596
and the posts before that explain the "counting system" - so they could be interesting to read for readers interested in LEFOV's > LE MAT's chores too I assume.
He is carrying the stave with his bundle CROSSWISE what nobody would do - even if he would be crazy enough to use 2 staves for a journey by foot in the 1st place.
He holds his right arm with the strong shoulder in a quite awkward manner that is supposed to draw your attention to his "anatomical problem" > deformation (what is a serious hint at his "roots" because in a field of expertise nobody in this thread cared for in the past 14 years - or I did overlook it - if so my humble excuses! - it is a defining property and because of that The PMB homeless man is stricken with a GOITER).
Now you could say that a goiter and a bad shoulder have nothing in common - BUT that's the TRICK because when you take Jean with his inscription LEFOV seriously you would take the "V" for a real V and not for a disguised "U" and you would (maybe) reach the conclusion (because CODE you know... and LATIN is a language alchemists preferred AND weird abbreviations and tags to DISGUISE their intentions for the laymen) that LEFOV is short for FOVea.
I deem you should be accustomed to such weird SHORTAGES because you took and take "Nas" for NICOLAS (a far cry indeed considering that Nicolas Conver was born 1784-12-31 - Marseille (Bouches-du Rhône) and died 1833-03-26 - Marseille (Bouches-du Rhône) with an active period from 1809-1833.
This all and much more is well documented at the Bibliothèque nationale de France where a version of the deck with the tag "1760" on the 2 of coins found refuge.
No time machine was found though with his belongings to my knowledge - but some go even so far to a CONSIDER that the NasCONVER on the 2 of coins COULD be a PSEUDONYM. Wow!
Taking the LATIN road and the crush on weird words in those times in SECRET texts authors fell victim to often you could come to another conclusion (considering the CARD and the way it is depicted in on)...
...that doesn't stick to the topic I sadly believe. Maybe here around is a thread about The BATELEUR too?
If someone could point me there if - THAT would be simply great!
http://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb43706229t
http://www.translate-latin.com/de/worterbuch-latein-englisch/fovea
In the medical profession fovea is in use for many centuries now to describe the "pits" of the human body and there is a whole catalog of them when you care to look at wikipedia and medical tomes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fovea
For Jean's LEFOV 2 are of special interest:
The ARMPIT that is called in Latin axilla which is the biggest fovea the body has to offer:
Note please that French would attach a female article to fovea what Jean simply couldn't do because you all wouldn't have fallen for his cleverness.
http://wordinfo.info/results/fovea
So that was the armpit - one of many human foveae.
The 2nd of interest to "readers" of LEFOV should be the one which made it into "common" language: fovéola.
http://www.guide-vue.fr/glossaire/fovea
The Fovea centralis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fovea_centralis
This "pit" is responsible for or enables you to: acute vision what is the purpose for the dreamy (INNER vision too because where LEFOV comes from - and that is the cause for his correct place BETWEEN XX & XXI) head of a man on LEFOV's walking stick that is a denominatER for the system that Jean put to use in his deck because HE divides the card EXACTLY in 2 halfs (already explained in the above TH links:
http://forum.tarothistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=16581&sid=f22da9028a713c2c1a49d1b6cd2bec98#p16581
You may think that this conclusion about the 2nd Fovea sounds a bit unfounded because it was discovered here in the west a bit later - but since your attention was already drawn to his SHOULDER you could deduct from there too...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder_joint
Now you may reason that this is a lot to take in BUT it gets better still:
You may have noted above that fovea is a SMALL manifestation of a bigger event called FOSSA:
Now: because Latin and history and geography and common language The FOSSA is also an animal (some without specific knowledge would call it a CAT):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossa_(animal)
This animal has very interesting peculiarities in itself:
The anus is hidden in a special pouch and especially the FEMALES and their nether regions appear quite "male" - but let's go with a wiki quote:
This should have been more than enough stuff for legends to rise in the 17th century but there is still more.
This animal is limited to Madagascar since it developed there and etymologists assume that the colloquial name Fossa could have been derived from trade languages during the 1600s.
Madagascar was far away from France but it had for some time a French governor who experienced horrible events in his district:
http://www.edgeofexistence.org/mammals/species_info.php?id=537
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptoprocta_spelea
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Étienne_de_Flacourt
Translation from the above German text to English:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riesenfossa
During his reign some events took place with these Antambas/giant Fossas that looked like they had gone on a distinct killing spree for HUMANS that probably should have made it to the yellow press in France.
But in Jean's case there would have probably been no need for that channel because such things happened for a long time on Madagascar and since the 7th century Omani Arabs and Shirazi Persians established trading posts there and a great deal of their lore found it's way to the "old" world in writing and translation and by personal accounts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histo...d_Shirazi_Persians_.28from_the_7th_century.29
As Madagascan lore about the Fossa goes it has a lust for human entrails and starts with the nether parts by ripping them from the prey and so digging a hole to feed from.
This behavior should have been a trait of the gigantic variety (lions follow sometimes that pattern because the belly of nearly any prey is sooo soft... ) that possibly went extinct and so this creepy feeding style was transfered (in the lore) to the still surviving little rascals who were/are not capable of feeding on humans as long they are alive and kicking. So they became (in the mind) a nearly supernatural force that went hunting for the weak - like on the card.
This was never observed by zoologists but the LORE goes that way - and you see it right there depicted on the turf of LEFOV in it's small appearance that is endangered to be taken for a DOG - by later know-not-so-muchs (AEW for instance with his romantic take on the matter - BUT he and others incorporated the PIT still to show that they knew SOMETHING
).Interesting still is that AEW (even when he did take the Fossa for a little dog) got the COLOR and the SIZE of the animal right (like Jean) because the YOUNG Fossa appears gray or nearly white and normally reaches up to 80 cm in body length with a similar long tail (Jean!).
http://www.jungledragon.com/specie/1477/fossa.html
(The site owner has published some very neat (especially ONE) pictures there that for the life of me I found no way to download for show here because it gives concerning the "creepiness" a much better impression as the wiki illustrations.)
AC made it a tiny little TIGER though on his starry eyed green monster card to show that HE knew SOMETHING TOO - but not so much. Otherwise he wouldn't have dared to change the LINES of the centuries that he did not understand a BIT - all the while searching for DETAILS to make fun of them in his dumbed down "interpretations" of wisdom.
So that was LEFOV.
Now the change to LE MAT and why and what it REALLY means
MAT has clearly no standing as a noun in the French language - but you should try to add a circumflex "Â/â" to the "A" and voilà: Le Mât is ready to set sails to roam the 7 seas of wonder because he now is well known as: The MAST.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumflex
When you read thoroughly through the wiki text about that tiny thing you may understand that the circumflex is CODE in itself but now I'm getting clearly ahead of myself too...
His employer LE BATELIER that came to you disguised and misunderstood as LE BATELEUR (already explained in the above TH link) wouldn't know how to keep the “Toue Cabanée" in check and the 20 passengers too.
The above is a qoute from my thread PDF (page 24) for TH:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/241968716/Tarotee-The-Back-Door-To-The-Secret-tarothistory-dot-com-pdf
Please ask if you think that I have anything forgotten to mention or you need more explanations on some matters and please note that this was NOT about the meaning of the card itself!
I'd be happy to tell - so don't be shy.
Adrian
firemaiden
I see you've been exploring the latin dictionary but I think you are seeking "midi à quatorze heures";. V for U is not a "disguise", it is a typographical reality. The idea that le fou should be "la fovea" in disguise via latin makes no sense to me. What would be the point ?
Adrian Goldwetter
Thank you for your eloquent discourse firemaiden!
And for your time to click the links and read and ponder.
Your thoughtful contribution is duly noted.
I was editing the above post while you posted and asked those who would be willing to lend me as a newbie around here a helping hand to find a "Bateleur-thread" in the same manner like this one that I could read - maybe to learn something new and exiting - or to post in it as well because even when jmd called The BATELEUR in his 1st post of this topic 1 of the 3 common titles I still would like to stick with The SYSTEM (in this case!).
Could you be that helpful person I may ask since we are here so close together in time and place?
Adrian
And for your time to click the links and read and ponder.
Your thoughtful contribution is duly noted.
I was editing the above post while you posted and asked those who would be willing to lend me as a newbie around here a helping hand to find a "Bateleur-thread" in the same manner like this one that I could read - maybe to learn something new and exiting - or to post in it as well because even when jmd called The BATELEUR in his 1st post of this topic 1 of the 3 common titles I still would like to stick with The SYSTEM (in this case!).
Could you be that helpful person I may ask since we are here so close together in time and place?
Adrian
