Doreen Virtue - positive or just too fluffy?

Sophie

faunabay said:
The one point I don't quite get is how can any deck (tarot or fluffy oracle) help with abused children, etc. ??? I think at that point you need more help than any divination deck can give. But like you did point out - if it were me and I was going to use a deck at a point like that I would probably go for my fluffy positive deck just because I would need some happy things to focus on.
You're right, of course - sorry if I was unclear in my ramble. I was answering the person who wrote "what's so wrong with fluffy, the world is so miserable anyway." I don't find the world miserable at all. I find it beautiful, but there are some miserable things in it (and I've seen quite a few of them).

I can only go by my own experience. I used to work with victims of torture and war, and now I work in an AIDS organisation. My being aware of torture, war and AIDS is not what made these things happen - they are there. But tarot helps me steer a path so I can be as helpful as is possible in any given situation, while not using up all my energy. I think, in that situation, a deck like a Doreen Virtue deck makes me angry. One thing you don't do when dealing with victims of torture is under-value what they went through or try and put a positive spin on it. That means having to look at nasty things in the face (and that includes all the nasty things in myself). Of course, in order to do that - I did need to be reminded of beauty in the world....

When I want a positive boost I sometimes pick the Star or the Sun - choose them consciously. But I've noticed when I am really down and stressed out, tarot will always give me a positive card to strengthen me. I find tarot a very kind friend - both honest and gentle. It's what I perceive as lack of honesty I don't like in Doreen Virtue decks. But used as you do, in combination, then I don't see the problem at all.

(I didn't only do it with cards, btw - as I wrote originally, Mozart, poetry and nature have always nourished me and given me a lift).

I don't think there's anything wrong, btw, in bringing out lots of decks, if people like them. The woman has to make a living. But then she should not package them as special spiritual messages from the Other World. They are a commercial enterprise, the oracle equivalent of Mills and Boon romances, which are also very popular and give people a positive boost (don't get me wrong, I can see value in those too - if only to give poor scribblers a job ;)).

Dark Inquisitor - I can think of several "spiritual" authors to fit the description you make :D. They spiritually drive around in fancy cars and spiritually vacation in exlusive gated holiday places in the Carribean, far from the madding crowds they feed with their mindless mush.
 

Alta

Now that everyone is being reasonable, and I don't feel as defensive as I usually do about these cards and this author I can express my own doubts.

Doreen Virtue, judging by her books, appears to be a sincere and, yes!, spiritual person. By her own account, she has always been concerned about money and sucess, and one way or another she has incorporated this into her spiritual values. She moreorless takes the viewpoint that having her physical needs met does not undermine her spirituality. She talks about being able to afford a new house, and about being jealous of other authors whose books do better etc.

I think this explains the decks which currently seem to be appearing every six months, plus the CDs, kits etc etc. But, if you read her books, which I have, the cards also parallel, to a certain extent, her own journey. Her first contact was with angels, then 'earth angels', or fairies, then dolphins and latterly goddesses etc.

I do not suppose it is surprising that the messages are the same or similar. The road to the divine is actually deceptively simple but we generally have trouble following it. I do, anyway, even though I have read, seen and felt the messages from several sources.

I also feel she is diluting her message a bit with this outpouring which is necessarily repetitive. As DI said, there is a bit too much of that going on in the spiritual guidance 'business'.
 

Sophie

Marion said:
I also feel she is diluting her message a bit with this outpouring which is necessarily repetitive. As DI said, there is a bit too much of that going on in the spiritual guidance 'business'.
It would more honest of her if she simply packaged her products as "feel-good", which is what they are - and nothing wrong with that, I agree. The word spiritual has become over-used and commercialized, and personally, I object to putting Doreen Virtue (no matter how legitimate her desire for a nice house might be) in the same boat as Teresa of Avila, Meister Ekhart and Chögyam Trungpa. The whole movement of "money is spiritual, getting rich is spiritual" makes me a little sick. Meeting one's basic material needs might be spiritual (who can be open to spirit when the stomach is grumbling and the children need new shoes?) but getting rich is not.

Speaking of finding a lift, here is a wonderful text by Chögyam Trungpa on how to melt away early morning depression. I'm not a Buddhist, but I find it far more inspirational than kitschy unicorns.
 

Alta

Helvetica said:
I object to putting Doreen Virtue (no matter how legitimate her desire for a nice house might be) in the same boat as Teresa of Avila, Meister Ekhart and Chögyam Trungpa.
I would not argue with that for one second. I feel in a false position seeming like an apologist for her when I am not, just like some of her writing. It would be ridiculous to compare her for an instant to any of the genuine spiritual authors such as those you mention.
 

HOLMES

i sense some judgement

based on her spirituality,,

which is the fact she is of course human,, and not a saint.
she admit the facts and does not hide them.

1. she did marunja
2. she dranked.
3. she was selling herself short being an author for love problems though she was unhappy.
4. she was mad at god when her book didnt' sell
5. she is sarcastic at times

i see nothing wrong with releasing products that build on each other, for i know that eventually the volume will decrease for the ground has be covered.

i love the fact she put out an angel board for example to give people a more postive charged board in ideal if not in pratice so they won't have to deal with some negative entities that can come through the ouja.

i followed her journey from lightworkers, to healing with the fairies, to angel medicine, to godess and angels .
i learn a lot by comparing it to my doubts, own tribulations. (one reason why i like reading people biographies like john edwards, james, and sylvia, and rosemary altea)

and i know that even though i am not attracted to the mermaids deck,, a person who loves mermaids and dolphins but be turned of by angels and archangels for they associate it with the church, or religion would get some postive messages to help them get closer to their ideals and in doing so see the messages of the source behind them.
not doreen virtue the author,, but the source of the creator who works for us all.

if i may mother theresa admits her own faults which many people overlook for they see only her work,, like a halo effect.

(i wonder what she may say about the mother theresa inspirsation cards that came out january of 2005,, i like to think that she would look at the inspiration that they give,)

I don't think it is ridiculous to compare the two,,
for doreen is teaching many people about angels, the creator..

it is like judging the healer who accepts pay for his services because he wants to be responsible and pay his bills,,
and the healer who doens't accept pay.

how can i compare the help the poor work of mother theresa who set up many centers ,, and the tell the people of the angels, work of doreen virtue that she has.
i tell you that in the eyes of the creator they are equal.

notice i didnt' make no apologies for doreen :)
for she is genuinely spiritual but what does that mean for we all got our spiritual ways,,
in the case of the author of her book, she realized her error in her ego and worked to overcome it and after that her book was lead to be sucessful.
it is like she had to overcome that test first.

which for me seems so small and i said to myself when i first read it , eheh angry at god for her book not selling,
for i understood it for i get frustrated when a post doens't get fully read for example, let alone a book that doens't get read if i wrote it.
 

Myst

Above all Doreen is human and she (like all us) had a road to travel to find herself and to feel good about what she found. If she has a way to make a living out of her road then good for her.
I don't know enough about her to make to many judgements but from the little I know I could not call her spiritual (the Dali Lama is spiritual) but she has a gift. She has the gift of making people feel good about themselves and to have faith in their own abilities. In this way she is assisting in helping the world as a whole be a better place to live. One person can make a difference.
Yes she is very fluffy and positive in all her decks but there are messages and subtle warnings in them as well.
On that note I own 3 of Doreen's decks (Fairies, Angels & Archangels). I originally bought my first deck (Fairies) for the art work alone.
I have found Archangel deck is the one that I am truly connected too. And, yes I do use them regularly. I don't always get positivity but I am always given suggestions as to how to overcome the negative.
My daughter owns the Unicorn deck which she uses regularly.
 

Tarotphelia

faunabay said:
And I agree with you about the "too similiar and kind of smarmy" thought. Doreen is teetering on that edge even with me. But I don't understand you saying it wouldn't worry you if it was in another industry. Why is that? And also why can't people take what they can use and ignore the rest?

In another industry , there probably wouldn't be any pretense about it. It's pretty much expected , for example that one crap group will turn out evermore crap cd's as long as people are willing to keep paying. They aren't pretending to be spiritual, or out for anything but themselves . Not that DV is pretending any of those things, but it could easily happen in that situation. Just like it happens with famous evangelists . I think if you're putting yourself out as a spiritual advisor , you should be a bit more accountable . People are granting you a level of trust and belief .

As for taking what we can use and ignoring the rest, that's what I was doing up until now . But you asked for opinions !

(She was mad at God when her book didn't sell? Ooops! )

I think it's great for people to be handsomely rewarded for their efforts . I look at it this way - somebody is going to have that money somehow. It might as well be someone who is doing good . The more money I have, the more good I could do with it , for myself and others.
 

faunabay

Dark Inquisitor said:
As for taking what we can use and ignoring the rest, that's what I was doing up until now . But you asked for opinions !

DI :* I wasn't saying this with you in particular in mind. I was talking generally in regards to her decks and books. Sorry if that was unclear.
And you're exactly right. I did ask for opinions and your's and everyone else's have helped me understand my own! :) Thank you all very much!

Just so there's no misunderstanding I'm going to say right up front this is me kind of talking to myself here...... :*

I think of Doreen Virtue as a spiritual person. But no more or less than we all are. So if she releases all these books and decks it gives me pause that we (any of us) could too. Also when I read her books I see a similarity between her life and mine - more than I can when I read someone like Ekhart or even the Dalai Lama (both of which I love reading by the way). These people (to me) are higher spiritually - something to strive for. Some place spiritually that's difficult but very satisfing to get to. But with Doreen I see myself in my day to day living more so I can apply it to my life easier. I don't see her as soooo out of my reach. Realize though that's just me.
Now truthfully I wish I wasn't like that - where I see someone as higher or lower than me spiritually. We as humans use judgements every day. We judge whether this is right for us or not right for us. Whether this person is "higher" than us or "lower" than us spiritually, emotionally, financially, etc. I'm striving to get to a place (in myself) where there is no judgement, no higher or lower - just decernment (I know I spelled that wrong). Where I just notice the differences but don't judge them. Where I notice that a person, place, thing, etc. is not for me but I don't judge whether that's right or wrong. I'm not there yet but I will be. :) And the path I take to get there is my path - no others can follow my exact path. We all need to find our own way. I think that's great. Makes the world an interesting place! :D
 

Rhiamon

my 2 cents...
I have Healing with the Fairies and Goddess Guidance, which I love, and although they are not for every situation, they give a lift when needed...c'mon, sometimes we really don't need to hear how bad our lives suck, we already KNOW that....lol...now let's hear something we can do about it. Thats why I like them. I also have Mermaids and Archangels, but I don't care for them as much as the first 2 :)
 

Elven

Dark Inquisitor said:
(I am secretly waiting for the Oracle of the SaintlyArchangelMermaidGuardianFaerieDolphinAtlanteanProphets of Christ .) <sarcasm>

ROFLMAO!!!!!! I want THAT deck! :p

Sorry to interupt - but I am really enjoying reading the thread - I just had to post ;)

Blessings
Elven x