Arthurian Legend - The Fives

WalesWoman

mooncat9 said:
I have a feeling that if Elaine was on Trisha, Trisha would say to get some DAMN SELF RESPECT! There is a doormat feel to Elaine in this card, when Lancelot doesn't really live up to his responsibilities. The fact Elaine in in and Lancelot is outside, shows how markedly different they are, how Elaine can see Lancelot but just can't reach him.

Good thoughts, but I sort of lost it, must need to re-read something...what and where is Trisha?

It could also mean you can't trick things into being the way you want them to be...she did have a spell placed on Lancelot to get him to "love" her in the first place, giving him the illusion that she was someone else. So it could be about more than regrets, but using deception to gain something that was never yours in the first place. So his regret was guilt for betraying his love and being victimized by Elaine, in one sense, not feeling responsible because he had been under a spell after all...it was't really his fault.

So, Elaine regretted her poor planning, things didn't turn out quite the way she had imagined them, but apologies wouldn't cut it...she had to take the responsibility of her actions and make the best of it. What is ironic, is that had she allowed things to happen in their own way, it may have been possible for them to have developed a real relationship, based on friendship and trust, as he came to the realization that his love for Guinevere was a destructive one. Instead it became a real Shakespearean tragedy, hardly anyone was left standing.
 

inanna_tarot

posted by mooncat9? Not me? lol, crazy technology eh?

Trisha is like a british version of Ricki Lake or something, but she comes from a very strong feminist (well, more equal rights equal respect equal contributions to relationships) point of view - talks a lot about women being in control of their bodies and not settling for anything less than partnerships of relationships.

A shakespearian tradgey, I like that thought on the 5 of Cups WalesWoman! And it makes more sense that its got the Elaine emphasis on it, rather than poor old Lancelot, he does get a beating in these tales a little.I have a feeling that if she hadnt interferred she could be outside with him, comforting him when he realised his relationship with Guenevere wasn't going anywhere. Instead now shes far more distant from him than ever.
I think this is the saddest of the 5's. Usually I think the Pentacles is, but this time the cups has got a sort of lump in my throat.
Sezo
x

I can't help but think Richard Gere when I think of Lancelot now ;)
 

WalesWoman

oh, gulp, am I embarrassed! Sorry, Sezo, guess I was jumping around and forgot what I was doing...just had read something of mooncat's earlier and still had her on my brain.

Thanks for clarifying the Trisha question and now that I understand who she is, I'd have to agree with her reply. Stop snivelling or looking for sympathy for creating the mess in the first place. That's so cold. I think the other homily is "You made this bed, go sleep in it." Realization that you are the cause of your own heartbreak, does nothing to ease the pain of it.

Poor Elaine, how can you blame her too much? ...loving from a distance, afraid of rejection, hoping against hope, the poignant bitter-sweet sorry of unrequited love, the slow realization that no matter how much you love, or do, or give, it is lost to you forever. Who can blame her for loving this man washed up and nursed back to life with her tender loving care. He must have been something.
 

mooncat2

oh, gulp, am I embarrassed! Sorry, Sezo, guess I was jumping around and forgot what I was doing...just had read something of mooncat's earlier and still had her on my brain.
ROFLOL!! Nice to know someone is thinking about me.
I think this is the saddest of the 5's.
I think so, too. Its one of the saddest 5 Cups I've seen.It doesn't hold the hope that other 5's do.

My heart goes out to Elaine. The book says ..'she loved Lancelot all her days.'
A hard lesson to learn is that loving someone doesn't necessarily mean that they will love you back, that no matter how hard you try you can't make it happen. What heartbreak when she finally sees and understands this.

Did she trick him?..........'Lancelot claimed he had been tricked' ..which sounds pretty much like a man trying to get himself out of a tight spot to me.

......'ashamed of how he had treated her' ! .....sets himself up , thanks to Elaine's father , and then spends his days hanging over the balcony pining for someone else. Elaine should have kicked him out long before he left but, she loved him , kept hoping, until one day he rides off into the sunset leaving her and his son.
...than poor old Lancelot, he does get a beating in these tales a little.
If this is an example of his character and usual behaviour then he deserves a beating. :)
 

Lyones

I'm not liking Lancelot much at all at this point. As a knight he's sworn to the king, whose wife he has an affair with, claims he was tricked into sleeping with Elaine (and granted, apologises for his actions later on), and when he loses Guenevere, he leads Elaine on and talks her into asking her father for a castle, then leaves her to return to Guenevere.

As for Elaine, I'm thinking just how much rejection can a person put up with before acknowledging that it's time to move on? How disappointed and lonely do you have to be in a relationship to finally come to terms with reality? Is it Lancelot's fault that she's oblivious to the fact that he's in love with someone else?

What fierce emotion drives the heart
To forsake all that is held dear?
The Code, the King, the Kingdom,
An old lover that is near.
On the battlements he stands
His mind, clearly far away
Exiled from his dreams
In turbulant dismay.

What fierce emotion drives the heart
To hold on when all is lost?
To gaze, to long forever,
No matter what the cost.
She leans upon the window
Taking in the scene
And yet, in pain, still craves
What might have been.

The sill’s support is cold and hard
The rock is damp and rough
It offers not the warmth of love
But holding up is not enough ...
Clutching to what is not,
Thoughts of an ideal
They lose sight of themselves
And everything that’s real.
 

WalesWoman

mooncat9 said:
If this is an example of his character and usual behaviour then he deserves a beating.
Hi Carol, my sentiments exactly! Guess that's why he had to play the Hermit and learn a few things...except he didn't learn to take care of his responsibilities if he never returned to Elaine and his son...unless someone knows otherwise.

This card sure can bring on some mixed feelings... they both need smacked, and they both need loved. Oh well, that's what tragedies and romance novels are made of...blind love sometimes can't aim worth a hoot and hits innocent bystanders mistakenly. Good thing 8 Wands isn't the Celtic equivalent of Cupid...that would mean for every two arrows hitting on target there are 6 creating heartbreak like Lancelot pining for Guinevere and Elaine pining for Lancelot and nobody was happy at all.

You are right about this being one of the saddest cards and hard to find that hope, those two cups left standing when there are none to be seen at all. Could it just be the hope to escape? Elaine holds onto the curtain, keeping the windows open, creating an opportunity if he simply turns around and walks away from the futilty of loving something that is not his, nor can be. The lesson could be...creating an alternate future that may not be quite what you dreamed but can be fulfilling all the same, once you let go of the past.
 

WalesWoman

Lyones!!!!
Did you just write this? That is so incredible and poignant, so perfectly reflecting everything, so simply. It makes me want to cry.
 

Lyones

Originally posted by WalesWoman
Lyones!!!! Did you just write this? That is so incredible and poignant, so perfectly reflecting everything, so simply. It makes me want to cry.

thanks ... I think it's the cards influence that has that emotional effect as well as a good dose of experience with this 5 ;)
 

Sophie-David

The poem was wonderful Lyones, thank you very much for sharing it.

David
 

Lyones

Originally by Sophie-David
The poem was wonderful Lyones, thank you very much for sharing it.

Thank you for your kind words, David, it was my pleasure - although the writing of it had me crying my eyes out - to share it with you guys :)