Golden Botticelli study ~ Ten of Wands

Ok, so this card came up for me tonight.
It is quite different from most decks I work with in that instead of a person carrying a load of sticks, looking weighed down, wary and downright burdened (which incidentally is my usual feeling about this card in other decks, "burden"),
It shows a man, wearing nothing but a loincloth or somesuch, who appears to be asleep on a piece of red cloth, amongst the flowers on a hillside. Above him are ten club like wands stuck higgledy piggledy into the ground.

Here is what the Lo Scarabeo LWB says about it, though I think they often use the same meanings for a lot of their decks but im not sure. To be honest, i'm not impressed with the LWB at all.

~ Tolerance, refusal to fight, tenacity in adversity
Reversed ~(which I dont use personally) Unrewarded effort, indistinguishability.

Hmm, im not sure the last is even a word lol!

Anyway, as far as the image goes, I can see how refusal to fight may fit the image, like hes given up, but I cant see how tolerance and tenacity are depicted by a sleeping man, hopefully someone can help here.

I guess in the usual image of man burdened by sticks, the meaning of tenacity and tolerance makes sense because the person has accepted their burden. Even refusal to fight makes sense because of the fact they are not giving up and have accepted their "lot".

But THIS image. To me, it depicts almost a complete opposite to our usual RWS type image. He doesnt seem to be burdened, in fact he looks as though he has taken a break from his work. To me, it looks as though he was carrying his load up this hillside, and feeling overcome with wariness, has stopped for a rest. So, perhaps that is the point, instead of concentrating on the feeling of burden, we must instead learn to accept our burdens calmly, and take a break when we need it, before we get burnt out.

I hope I made some sense, I look forward to your input on this.

Ambrosia,

I have had the ten of wands come up several times for me as well, and as you stated, it looks nothing like the usual RWS image. The LWB is totally unhelpful, although I do glance at it from time to time to see if there's anything I can glean from it. (Usually not!)

For some reason, I have always seen the wands as floating above the man's head in a sort of dream cloud, as though he's dreaming of the wands. His face in repose is completely peaceful, so I never got the "burden" feeling from this card (although I completely agree that is what this card usually means). Perhaps this image is saying that even when he is sleeping, he is still not free of the burden the wands have placed on him? If that's the case, shouldn't he have a more troubled expression on his face while slumbering? At least that would make sense!

As you mentioned in your post, the LWB says the ten of wands means "Tolerance. Refusal to fight. Tenacity in adversity." Er, um, this image doesn't really depict any of those keywords to me, as all of those are *conscious* decisions. This man is sleeping-totally passive and unaware of anything going on around him. How can he show tolerance if he's taking a nap? The closest I can come to agreeing with the keywords is "refusal to fight" because he's obviously not in any state to fight anyone. But again, it would have made more sense if he were awake, standing up, with the wands piled at his feet and his hands up and out to show he has no intention of using the wands to fight, don't you think? THAT would have been a much easier image to understand.

Up until this point, whenever this card comes up for me, I have been ignoring the image and reading its meaning in the traditional RWS-sense because I couldn't reconcile the image to the LWB. I am going to try googling the paintings by Botticelli as you suggested, to see if the painting the image comes from makes sense for the meaning. Great idea! And I really like this analysis:

"But THIS image. To me, it depicts almost a complete opposite to our usual RWS type image. He doesnt seem to be burdened, in fact he looks as though he has taken a break from his work. To me, it looks as though he was carrying his load up this hillside, and feeling overcome with wariness, has stopped for a rest. So, perhaps that is the point, instead of concentrating on the feeling of burden, we must instead learn to accept our burdens calmly, and take a break when we need it, before we get burnt out."

I think I might try using this meaning the next time it comes up for me to see if it fits the question. I think you are closer than I am!

Do you mind if I ask which meaning fit better for you in the context of your spread? When this card came up for you, did it make more sense for your situation to use the card's image or the traditional RWS meaning?

Looking forward to your views,
Etoile

can I join in on this study?
I just started using this deck intuitivly..

For me the person in this card not only is he relaxed and calm but he has let go of his burden -for me I read it that he is free and done with worries no more stress-only calm srenety and peace...
That is how he came up in my readings and it has been right on the nose!
I do not use the LWB and I don't think the traditional RWS meanings always work with this deck.

Etoile said:

Ambrosia,

I have had the ten of wands come up several times for me as well, and as you stated, it looks nothing like the usual RWS image. The LWB is totally unhelpful, although I do glance at it from time to time to see if there's anything I can glean from it. (Usually not!)

Click to expand...

Lol. I totally agree. For the most part the LWB is completely useless. I use it in the same way you do, just to see if there MAY be something helpful, and like you, usually not.

Etoile said:

For some reason, I have always seen the wands as floating above the man's head in a sort of dream cloud, as though he's dreaming of the wands. His face in repose is completely peaceful, so I never got the "burden" feeling from this card (although I completely agree that is what this card usually means). Perhaps this image is saying that even when he is sleeping, he is still not free of the burden the wands have placed on him? If that's the case, shouldn't he have a more troubled expression on his face while slumbering? At least that would make sense!

Click to expand...

I like your idea about the wands floating like he is dreaming, and that even in sleep we are not free of our burdens. It could also be looked at that while we sleep, or rest, this is when we can truly free ourselves from our burdens. They say that in sleep, our subconscious mind has the ability to sort through our problems hence the expression "sleep on it". Confusing and contradictory I know, but you can see how we now have three different ways of looking at this image when it comes up in a reading. I dont believe a card ever has one set meaning so this discussion should be helpful in that it will give us some different things to think about, and we can choose what seems to be most appropriate when it comes up.

Etoile said:

As you mentioned in your post, the LWB says the ten of wands means "Tolerance. Refusal to fight. Tenacity in adversity." Er, um, this image doesn't really depict any of those keywords to me, as all of those are *conscious* decisions. This man is sleeping-totally passive and unaware of anything going on around him. How can he show tolerance if he's taking a nap? The closest I can come to agreeing with the keywords is "refusal to fight" because he's obviously not in any state to fight anyone. But again, it would have made more sense if he were awake, standing up, with the wands piled at his feet and his hands up and out to show he has no intention of using the wands to fight, don't you think? THAT would have been a much easier image to understand.

Click to expand...

Yes I agree. I really wish Atanassov had written a companion book telling us his reasons for choosing certain paintings for his images. I also agree about refusing to fight. Perhaps he has surrendered and in so doing, now is free of his burden. When we accept what is around us, whether good or bad, it can be very freeing dont you agree?

Etoile said:

Up until this point, whenever this card comes up for me, I have been ignoring the image and reading its meaning in the traditional RWS-sense because I couldn't reconcile the image to the LWB. I am going to try googling the paintings by Botticelli as you suggested, to see if the painting the image comes from makes sense for the meaning. Great idea! And I really like this analysis:

"But THIS image. To me, it depicts almost a complete opposite to our usual RWS type image. He doesnt seem to be burdened, in fact he looks as though he has taken a break from his work. To me, it looks as though he was carrying his load up this hillside, and feeling overcome with wariness, has stopped for a rest. So, perhaps that is the point, instead of concentrating on the feeling of burden, we must instead learn to accept our burdens calmly, and take a break when we need it, before we get burnt out."

I think I might try using this meaning the next time it comes up for me to see if it fits the question. I think you are closer than I am!

Click to expand...

Im glad you found this helpful. I think the whole point of the deck is that the artist has picked certain paintings for the card images and so these paintings MUST hold some information as to the meaning of the card. Like I said, a companion book wouldnt have gone amiss lol!
As far as my interpretation, thankyou. But im not sure any one meaning is any more RIGHT than another. I liked your interpretation. I feel this study is helpful in that it gives each of us other ways of looking at a card which we may not have thought of on our own. It is so easy to get caught up on one meaning, and yet it is hard to get past that. So much food for thought MUST be helpful.

Etoile said:

Do you mind if I ask which meaning fit better for you in the context of your spread? When this card came up for you, did it make more sense for your situation to use the card's image or the traditional RWS meaning?

Looking forward to your views,
Etoile

Click to expand...

Well I tend to read intuitively with all my decks and also draw on a bit of traditional meaning if it fits the image, but the difference is, most decks seem to show at least some of the traditional meaning in the image so it works you know? If I have a deck whos images dont portray the trad. meaning, I will not use the traditional meaning unless I can somehow reconcile the image with that meaning.
In this case, it was best to go with my own feelings about the image as to see it as burden just seemed wrong.
I think you really need to draw on a bit of traditional knowledge as well as your own intuition to truly read a deck. So in conclusion, no I wouldnt ignore the image and use the Trad. meaning. I read the images first and foremost, and then and only then will I think about traditional meanings too, to see if they may fit or help in some way to bulk it out if that makes sense. I feel an understanding of traditional meanings is essential in learning to read as there is a lot we can learn from those who have gone before. BUT, it is equally important not to get too caught up in what "other people" think a card means, after all, those traditional meanings are just "other peoples" opinions, that "other people" have decided work for them and so continue to use them.

I also wanted to say that we must not get stuck on what we think a card SHOULD mean, or what a card TRADITIONALLY means. It makes absolutely no sense to force a meaning on a card when the image is something entirely different.
There are many things a sword or a cup can be about, and likewise, many ways of looking at the number ten for instance. The ten is about completion or culmination, and in RWS type decks Pamela Smith drew what she (or Waite) felt the card meant FOR THEM. In that case, the ten of wands at its height meant feeling burdened or weighed down, but for others the culmination of this suit could mean finally being free of said burdens. There really is no right or wrong. just what makes sense to us as individuals. We could both look at the same image and get two different feelings about it and thats ok too, its what feels right for us, the reader. Other decks after that have basically copied those images so when you find a deck which differs, it is not wrong, just a different understanding of the suits and numbers. Decks like the Visconti and the Marseilles have completely different meanings from RWS types and they came before RWS.

Hope this rambling was helpful in some way.

Ashtaroot said:

can I join in on this study?
I just started using this deck intuitivly..

For me the person in this card not only is he relaxed and calm but he has let go of his burden -for me I read it that he is free and done with worries no more stress-only calm srenety and peace...
That is how he came up in my readings and it has been right on the nose!
I do not use the LWB and I don't think the traditional RWS meanings always work with this deck.

Click to expand...

Hi Ashtaroot, of course you can join in!

I agree with your interpretation wholeheartedly! I dont think we should see this card as burden as in RWS type decks, but like you, as an end to burden.

I also was thinking, the suit of wands tends to be about action, work, movement right? so it seems natural that its culmination, or completion in the ten, could be about rest, or an end to action rather than more burden. Both would technically be right in essence. This deck though seems to point toward and end or a rest from action, and that is definately for me, a culmination or completion for the firey action oriented wands.

Makes sense to me anyway lol!

Ashtaroot said:

can I join in on this study?
I just started using this deck intuitivly..

For me the person in this card not only is he relaxed and calm but he has let go of his burden -for me I read it that he is free and done with worries no more stress-only calm srenety and peace...
That is how he came up in my readings and it has been right on the nose!
I do not use the LWB and I don't think the traditional RWS meanings always work with this deck.

Click to expand...

Welcome to the study group, Ashtaroot! The more, the merrier. I am new to studying tarot, and the Golden Botticelli is my first deck. I have also come to the conclusion that this deck is going to have to be treated seperately than the usual RWS-type. When I bought it, I had no idea the difference between decks, or how difficult this one would be to read unless it was done intuitively. I look forward to your input.

Etoile

Ambrosia said:

Lol. I totally agree. For the most part the LWB is completely useless. I use it in the same way you do, just to see if there MAY be something helpful, and like you, usually not.



I like your idea about the wands floating like he is dreaming, and that even in sleep we are not free of our burdens. It could also be looked at that while we sleep, or rest, this is when we can truly free ourselves from our burdens. They say that in sleep, our subconscious mind has the ability to sort through our problems hence the expression "sleep on it". Confusing and contradictory I know, but you can see how we now have three different ways of looking at this image when it comes up in a reading. I dont believe a card ever has one set meaning so this discussion should be helpful in that it will give us some different things to think about, and we can choose what seems to be most appropriate when it comes up.



Yes I agree. I really wish Atanassov had written a companion book telling us his reasons for choosing certain paintings for his images. I also agree about refusing to fight. Perhaps he has surrendered and in so doing, now is free of his burden. When we accept what is around us, whether good or bad, it can be very freeing dont you agree?



Im glad you found this helpful. I think the whole point of the deck is that the artist has picked certain paintings for the card images and so these paintings MUST hold some information as to the meaning of the card. Like I said, a companion book wouldnt have gone amiss lol!
As far as my interpretation, thankyou. But im not sure any one meaning is any more RIGHT than another. I liked your interpretation. I feel this study is helpful in that it gives each of us other ways of looking at a card which we may not have thought of on our own. It is so easy to get caught up on one meaning, and yet it is hard to get past that. So much food for thought MUST be helpful.



Well I tend to read intuitively with all my decks and also draw on a bit of traditional meaning if it fits the image, but the difference is, most decks seem to show at least some of the traditional meaning in the image so it works you know? If I have a deck whos images dont portray the trad. meaning, I will not use the traditional meaning unless I can somehow reconcile the image with that meaning.
In this case, it was best to go with my own feelings about the image as to see it as burden just seemed wrong.
I think you really need to draw on a bit of traditional knowledge as well as your own intuition to truly read a deck. So in conclusion, no I wouldnt ignore the image and use the Trad. meaning. I read the images first and foremost, and then and only then will I think about traditional meanings too, to see if they may fit or help in some way to bulk it out if that makes sense. I feel an understanding of traditional meanings is essential in learning to read as there is a lot we can learn from those who have gone before. BUT, it is equally important not to get too caught up in what "other people" think a card means, after all, those traditional meanings are just "other peoples" opinions, that "other people" have decided work for them and so continue to use them.

I also wanted to say that we must not get stuck on what we think a card SHOULD mean, or what a card TRADITIONALLY means. It makes absolutely no sense to force a meaning on a card when the image is something entirely different.
There are many things a sword or a cup can be about, and likewise, many ways of looking at the number ten for instance. The ten is about completion or culmination, and in RWS type decks Pamela Smith drew what she (or Waite) felt the card meant FOR THEM. In that case, the ten of wands at its height meant feeling burdened or weighed down, but for others the culmination of this suit could mean finally being free of said burdens. There really is no right or wrong. just what makes sense to us as individuals. We could both look at the same image and get two different feelings about it and thats ok too, its what feels right for us, the reader. Other decks after that have basically copied those images so when you find a deck which differs, it is not wrong, just a different understanding of the suits and numbers. Decks like the Visconti and the Marseilles have completely different meanings from RWS types and they came before RWS.

Hope this rambling was helpful in some way.

Click to expand...

Definitely helpful! I am not sure if I have mentioned that I have only been studying tarot with this deck for about the last three months, so everything is new to me. I've gone to readers for years, but it took me until recently to realize I could learn for myself. My fondness for all things beautiful drew me to this deck, but at the time I didn't comprehend how much it varied from the usual RWS types. I was originally on the lookout for Kat Black's Golden tarot, and when I came across this in a metaphysical shop I figured it might be similar. Still glad I bought it, but I am strongly considering getting the Universal Waite so that I can build a foundation for tarot in general. I also like your idea of studying the numerology of the cards. I have a bit of a background in that, so I would be game for discussing that as well. Thank you for all of your suggestions/insight!