Dates for the De Laurence Variants

Cerulean

Excerpt from Frank Jensen's book with much credit to Holly's website/material

P. 162-164, Story of the Waite-Smith Tarot, Frank Jensen (Part IV: Early Waite Smith Remakes: The Story Goes On)

Notes/Highlights from the section "de Laurence"

- 1918 book is first plagiarism with PCS line art.

"The first plagiarism appeared as early as 1918 where a book published by The de Laurence Company in Chicago in USA was named The Illustrated Key to the Tarot..."

"The illustrations were the line art of Pamela Colman Smith and so was the artwork for the deck that the L.W. de Laurence's publishing company also offered for sale at the same time. The book was reprinted many times over the years, all of them still stating a publication date of 1918 and with no reference to the specific print run. In at least one early edition of the book the illustrations had a yellow effect colour added, otherwise they were rendered in greyscale. the book covers of the different print runs vary in colour and so does the paper's quality."

"The accompanying decks of cards were chaeply produced in duochrome, using only black ink and one effect colour. Three different versions are known with the colours yellow, orange and red added respectively. On the box of the yellow deck the address is given as 79 North Michigan Avenue, Chicago 1, Illinois. One early edition of the yellow deck, most likely the very first, has (s)quare corners, and no back pattern. The later yellow packs have rounded corners and orange back pattern with white dots.

"The orange deck has the address as 180 North Wabash Avenue, Chicago 1, while the red deck has the same street address, but with the postal number (zip-code) 60601 added. Since zip-codes were first introduced in 1963, this version of the deck is inevitably not from before this date.

"The title page of all the editions contains a list of an imposing number of other books, all written by Mr. de Laurence. One can wonder if he actually wrote any of them himself..."

That's all that is pertinent to the query of the datings, deck and book--it does not note whether cards and boxes were different editions. In any case, I hope this assists.

If anyone has the rare yellow deck with '(s)quare corners and no back pattern....tis vintage indeed!

Cerulean

P.S. I'm going to include at some point a link to another thread, so we do not get sidetracked...but De Laurence and assorted finds about this...very different personality...deserves it's own threads. The findings about the deck itself are too interesting and unique right now as we share what we remember and find out about the deck and things related to its printings!

Anyone with a related De Laurence book or catalog might find a cross-reference, or advertisement of the actual decks...as I am finding this vendor was not shy at all about pressing forward his assorted and associated wares at any opportunity.
 

Bansuri93

The Plot Thickens...

Wow, thanks for the notes from Frank Jensen's book, Cerulean--I need to get a copy of that.

His assertion that the orange variant appeared in a box with the Wabash Avenue address has made me change my 'best guess' for the dating of the deck variants.

I think we may perhaps be starting to see where Holly Voley's dates came from. From what we've discovered so far, I think it's fairly likely that someone would have found the orange variant in a store in the 1960's and seen the red variant in a store in the early 1980's. I have been surprised so far :D However, I think that the printing dates of these decks is still much earlier--probably more like the '30s to the '60s for the orange variant and the '60s to '70s for the red.

It would be interesting to see if there are two versions of the orange deck:

* An early orange version that is duotone black/orange the same as the black/yellow variant (I have not seen anything like this, just wondering...)
* A later version that is duotone indigo/orange the same as some red decks. Using indigo ink allowed the printer to layer the inks to create a black effect.

It's difficult to tell from the picture, but Debra's orange deck appears to be duotone with indigo and orange inks. On The Hanged Man, the roman numeral, Pamela's signature, and the card background all appear bluish to me, whereas the rest of the linework seems black. Holly Voley's The Fool also appears indigo/orange--the linework is black with an indigo ink in the figure's clothing detail and in the feather.

I think there are also two versions of the red deck:

* An early version that uses indigo ink and extensive layering of the red and indigo to produce a black effect
* A later version that uses bright blue ink and practically no layering

The red variant online at the The Inner Light Society uses a much brighter blue ink and seems to use less layering resulting in less black in the images. Holly Voley's red The Fool, on the other hand, has the same indigo ink and extensive layering as her orange card.

Based on all that, here's my best guess timeline:
  • Yellow Deck 1 (plain back / square corners) variant is from 1916-1918
  • Yellow Deck 2 (printed back / round corners / black ink) is from 1918-(before c1931*)
  • Orange Deck 1** (printed back / black ink)
  • Orange Deck 2 (printed back / indigo ink / Michigan Ave. Box) is from (after c1931*)-(before c1958*)
  • Orange Deck 3 (printed back / indigo ink / Wabash Ave. Box) is from (after c1958*)-(before c1963)
  • Red Deck 1 (printed back / indigo ink) is from (after c1963)-(c1970s**)
  • Red Deck 2 (printed back / blue ink) is from (c1970s**)-(before c1980*)

* - Educated Guess (see previous posts)
** - Total Guess (don't count on it ;))

It's truly a collector's nightmare :)
 

Debra

Yep. It's blue ink, not really black.
 

Cerulean

Mention of de Laurence tarot book, October 1930

In the Divination with Tarot Cards published by J.A. Knapp in Los Angeles, CA, October 1930 (Copyrighted Oct. 25, 1930), after the last page for text (page 28), there is the page for advertising tarot cards and the booklet, then the very last printed page:

The following books deal with the Tarot.

Key to the Tarot (many spaces) de Laurence Edition
(Reprint of Pictorial Tarot, by A.E. Waite)

...other books noted by Papus, Levi, St. Germaine, Theirens... and address of publisher...and four digit zip code.
------------------------------------------------------------
In the 1935 edition, there is no mention of de Laurence...but by then the booklet for the Knapp-Hall is being printed and distributed in Los Angeles by a rather interesting new publisher of the time, George Llewellyn--which advertises first a nice bundle of lessons by Paul Foster Case and afterwards, A.E. Waite's book.
------------------------------------------------------------

I checked A History of the Occult Tarot, but there isn't anything more than a mention that there were different color printings by de Laurence, no details at all.

Best,

Cerulean
 

Rev. Jim

De Laurence catalogue info

Thanks for mentioning the Church of Good Luck website in this thread. Thought I’d share some information on The de Laurence Company. The Company is still in business and doing well. They are currently located in Michigan City, Indiana - I actually visited there last November.

I have six de Laurence catalogues and three of them advertise the Tarot book and cards. The big 1985 catalogue does not list them and neither do the two “mini-catalogues” (late 1930s and 2006), so it seems they have not sold either product for quite some time.

I believe my oldest catalog is from 1919 or so, titled “Catalogue of Books, Bibles, Diamonds and Jewelry Sold by The de Laurence Company”. Both the catalogue and order envelope give the address as 117 North Wabash Avenue, Chicago, ILL. USA. The order blank has a line for the date printed: Date___________ 191____. The catalogue lists many general book titles and includes 50 books on occult science and psychology. De Laurence lists himself as author of his own books and credits the other books to their proper authors (including one by Waite). Order No. 607 is “The Key to the Tarot –An Illustrated Book” and one complete pack of 78 Tarot cards, price $3.50. Interestingly, no author is listed for this particular book.

The “Catalogue of Occult and Spiritual Books” is dated 1931 and lists the address at 179 N. Michigan Ave. Chicago, Ill. USA. This is perhaps the first big catalog, at over 500 pages. Unlike the two line advertisement in the older catalogue, this one devotes a whole illustrated page to the book and another to the cards. The book ad now lists the author as L.W. de Laurence. The ad for the cards says they have been “carefully and exquisitely drawn from original designs” with “the trumps printed in five oriental colors”. Sold as a set only, the item is now Order No. 20, price still $3.50.

Next is the De Laurence’s Catalog of Books on Occultism, etc. which lists the address as 180 North Wabash Avenue, Chicago, Illinois 60601, USA. This 420 page catalog lists the “New Polaroid Swinger” camera so it dates from the later 1960s. It has a similar two page spread for the book and cards using the same line drawings as the 1931 catalogue. The book is no longer listed as being “printed on the finest coated paper” or having gold edges. The ad for the cards no longer mentions color printing. They are now sold separately, using order No. 20C for the deck $5, No. 20B for the book $3.50 and No. 20S for both $7.50.

Hope this information is of some use. When I have a bit of time I'll try to scan these tarot ads and put them up on the web.
 

Cerulean

I finally located a 1949 catalogue with both both ads as well.

And I do believe the tarot ads posted on Holly Volley's site are the same exact pages in my 1949 catalog.

http://home.comcast.net/~vilex/Adverts.html

I cannot scan them myself, but if I find any differences that would help, I will pay for one or two scans to be made by a copy service. That is if they are different from Holly's posted pages...

And Rev. Jim, that is fantastic to have a de Laurence visitor who actually saw or knows of the company! I only saw online a listing on a merchant site where people are posting to request a catalog from far off places--I've never seen a recent catalog, online or elsewhere, nor local advertisement for the company.

This is a fascinating thread and I'm delighted to read more! So as far as some of us know, the 1949 catalog listed the full two-page ads that were listed in Holly's webpage...so perhaps you lucky tarot owners out there have a true 'vintage' deck that has a curious, quirky history.

Best,

Cerulean
 

gregory

Bump to ask - does anyone know of a MAJORS ONLY DeLaurence ???? Someone I know seems to have bought what looks rather like one on ebay....
 

rwcarter

Bansuri93 said:
Based on all that, here's my best guess timeline:
  • Yellow Deck 1 (plain back / square corners) variant is from 1916-1918
  • Yellow Deck 2 (printed back / round corners / black ink) is from 1918-(before c1931*)
  • Orange Deck 1** (printed back / black ink)
  • Orange Deck 2 (printed back / indigo ink / Michigan Ave. Box) is from (after c1931*)-(before c1958*)
  • Orange Deck 3 (printed back / indigo ink / Wabash Ave. Box) is from (after c1958*)-(before c1963)
  • Red Deck 1 (printed back / indigo ink) is from (after c1963)-(c1970s**)
  • Red Deck 2 (printed back / blue ink) is from (c1970s**)-(before c1980*)

* - Educated Guess (see previous posts)
** - Total Guess (don't count on it ;))

It's truly a collector's nightmare :)
I have an Orange Deck 2, an incomplete Red Deck 2 and a Red Deck 1 assuming indigo is darker than blue.

And my orange deck came with a solid reddish-orange piece of unlaminated cardboard whose corners don't match up to the deck, so I don't know if it was originally included or added by a previous owner.
 

truelighth

* The yellow deck / plain back variant is from 1916-1918
* The yellow deck / printed back is from 1918-(before c1931)
* The orange deck / printed back is from (after c1931)-(before c1963)
* The red deck / printed back is from (after c1963)-(before c1980)

I only just discovered this thread. What a pity. I don't really know that much about the DeLaurence decks, but I do have all 4 versions.

All of the decks with a printed back have a box, although falling apart. The addresses are the same as already mentioned.

The yellow deck with the plain back and square corners however, has no box. I don't even know if it ever came with one. The cardstock is also significantly different from the others.

I do think the time frame you post makes sense. I myself even think the yellow deck with the printed back is probably from wel lafter 1918, more near 1931. Since it is actually very, very similar to the orange and red version, while the yellow deck with plain backs is not.

There is clearly a difference in production between those two yellow versions.
 

Kimber

I only just discovered this thread. What a pity. I don't really know that much about the DeLaurence decks, but I do have all 4 versions.

All of the decks with a printed back have a box, although falling apart. The addresses are the same as already mentioned.

The yellow deck with the plain back and square corners however, has no box. I don't even know if it ever came with one. The cardstock is also significantly different from the others.

I do think the time frame you post makes sense. I myself even think the yellow deck with the printed back is probably from wel lafter 1918, more near 1931. Since it is actually very, very similar to the orange and red version, while the yellow deck with plain backs is not.

There is clearly a difference in production between those two yellow versions.

I also have all 4 versions - I think! It is very hard to distinguish between the orange and red versions....I'm wondering if I have two Oranges and no red! The one I thought was red seems to be a very dark blue and red. I don't know whether the address is Wabash or Michigan, though, because someone pasted a sticker for a store in NY over it...wonder if I could steam it?? Anyway, this box has "$2.50" in the corner, which doesn't sound like ~80s prices to me! The one I think is Orange has the Michigan address. I have the Yellow Rounded Corner edition, and also the Yellow Square Cornered edition (white back ). The white backed, square cornered edition is by the far the best printing quality of the bunch....they seem to get progressively sloppier and the detail less distinct.
does anybody have a good comparison shot of cards from the red version(s) and card(s) from the orange version for comparison? I'll post one from each of mine here:
 

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