earthair
You make a good point.
The more I see this MAT HDS the more I know I've seen it in another deck too, which I'd like to compare it to...*going through my collection now*. Almost like Adrian and Magow, but not...
"The direct descendant" of the Thoth?
You make a good point.
The more I see this MAT HDS the more I know I've seen it in another deck too, which I'd like to compare it to...*going through my collection now*. Almost like Adrian and Magow, but not...
Naomi Ningishzidda
I am sorry about that, about 20% of our bros are in Scandinavia. What happened in the US here is that USPS dropped boat shipment which took about 1-2 weeks. Only air is available now. I have done everything I could on my end to locate a better service but there is none.
If we were a large publisher we could easily find distributors but that will not happen until the second run I'm afraid.
I didn't even want to offer international shipment because of this, but the demand was so high with daily emails about it I finally caved and people are ordering them so I don't want to take them back down. I do feel really bad about it in general though - and this is why the original printing plan didn't happen - I could not justify selling decks for $200 apiece to anyone. I'm not rich and this deck isn't for rich people it's for everyone in the world that wants one. The only other thing that I could think of doing is to get someone to be a distributor - after that for Europe specifically there is a convoluted system of VAT (aka institutionalized theft) that people have to deal with and I have no way to see the logistics of that past sending a box of 20-25 decks off.
So yeah it sucks and I know it sucks, Ebay offered us the best solution - tailor suited shipping so that some international countries could benefit but the downside is it is very expensive to countries aside from the USA which were looking forward to the deck the most.
There are a few people I trust over in Europe who could handle this but it is a lot of work to do the S&H and customer service followup so I can't really ask them to do it.
WolfyJames
I received my copy today.
The deck is very pretty, dark, gothic filled with lovecraftian beasts roaming through the cards... and dragons. For anyone who thinks the Liber T is dark, that one is darker.
I'm a bit disappointed with the Prince of Blades though, looking silly naked with a roster head, a stupid bird and ugly bird at that, could have been better with an eagle, falcon, crow or raven's head instead. It's my significator so it's usually the one I use or check when I do readings, while the King of Blades looks very badass. I'd use the King of Blades as significator if I were to use the deck.
I'm really happy I got the deck, it was at a decent price for a limited edition, free book which you can download as PDF, and more I look at it more it makes want to use it.
The deck is very pretty, dark, gothic filled with lovecraftian beasts roaming through the cards... and dragons. For anyone who thinks the Liber T is dark, that one is darker.
I'm a bit disappointed with the Prince of Blades though, looking silly naked with a roster head, a stupid bird and ugly bird at that, could have been better with an eagle, falcon, crow or raven's head instead. It's my significator so it's usually the one I use or check when I do readings, while the King of Blades looks very badass. I'd use the King of Blades as significator if I were to use the deck.
I'm really happy I got the deck, it was at a decent price for a limited edition, free book which you can download as PDF, and more I look at it more it makes want to use it.
mithros
the rooster head character is a very accurate rendering of Abraxas (aka Abrasax) who is said to constitute the intelligence behind every star, historically (via the Gnostics). The form appears at various intervals in history so again is not something made up for no reason. Sorry you don't care for the symbolism. Can't please all the people all of the time.
mithros
"based upon" and "descended from" are NOT the same thing at all in any sense, shape or form that makes any rational logic to me. Crowley was the first in modern times to link hexagrams to the Tree of Life for instance. But he only uses about 25% of them whereas we are using them all. Technically what we have done descends from what he has done but is not based upon it at all because it is very nearly useless to only use 25% and disregard the rest with no explanation. It may be splitting hairs but some hairs really need to be split.I think we are using 'based' and 'descended from' [from your introduction quoted in my OP at the top of this thread] as meaning so close to the same thing that they become the same thing?! And you have quoted the 8 of discs from Thoth in your 8 of Pents.
Barleywine
I don't have the deck and doubt I'll get it any time soon, but it seems to be a serious work that could probably have stood on its own merits without dragging Crowley's name in and kind of gleefully trampling on it as was done in the advertising pitch ("We fixed his errors!"). Even if arguably true - or at least defensible - in some ways, was that really necessary? A little more circumspection and respect might have been nice. It's not an enticement that's likely to move any serious student of the Thoth deck or Crowley's work in general. I'll soon (too soon!) pass 50 years in that worthy endeavor, and I lump such overheated, self-important claims right up there with money-making schemes like the "Law of Attraction," itself a regurgitation of musty old New Thought notions for a modern audience clueless about its antecedants.
Naomi Ningishzidda
I am glad you like most of it and I get your attraction to Corvus and Falconidae. I am really interested that you like The King of Blades but not Abrasax.
The King of Blades is very personal because it is my face and m1thr0s' face merged. I had just graduated when I started on the deck and had bailed out of the concept art field - just couldn't stand working in it, but I needed models and couldn't afford live models all the time, so I used a lot of people I knew and took photos of myself naked and all kinds of stuff to try to get the more complex poses down.
Here are the two photos I used
http://imgur.com/WEVWTFc
http://imgur.com/2d57Rzq
This was the second version face of the *original* Prince of Blades:
http://abrahadabra.com/projects/the-mutational-alchemy-tarot/mini-037-prince-of-blades/
He was an early creation, done in 2007 - he had the face of one of the members of my coven members. At this point in time I had just sort of "discovered" m1thr0s not just as a friend and an ooey tantric alchemist who moderated the Satanist subforum on Eric's Occult Forums, but as a *supreme hottie*, the King of the Rakshasas himself, (There is No God but Man!) with a six demon bag of very overpowered mirrors, that WORKED, they actually WORKED. Oh my gosh I had it bad. And this was before I knew he could make me levitate. So the guy whose face I had placed on Prince of Blades had a crush on me. We got in a big fight because he kept insulting m1thr0s behind his back to me and I couldn't deal with his face anymore. He was also the bloody nephew of my totally awesome webmaster so it was a crazy situation at the time. So I repainted it with another made up face which didnt look like anyone but it was overworked, i couldn't bring the image back to life.
Now ----there is all of that but I did NOT want to redo another card. We had finished saving close to enough to print from m1's art sales, and then the issue of shipping came up which was over a $1000 with UPS which I had to secure a loan for. m1thr0s said he wanted to redo the Prince of Blades as we were about to go to print. I dug in my heels - well yes I was upset at the card but I didn't want to do more work and I was already busy trying to reformat the cards for the printer's specs. But I knew the TwinStar was going to make me redo the card, and it had to be Abrasax, he would be the last one. Abrasax is crucially important to the conversation going on with Abrahadabra which is central to a branch of Mutational Alchemy, specifically Tetragrammaton. After a decade of playing with Mutational Alchemy, one learns to pay f****** attention when the tetractys wants something. And so I consented.
Of course we would end the deck with Abrasax, and I did a lot of research, as I too am uncomfortable with the idea of "farm animals" as occult symbols, something I had to sort of retrain my mind with as I had been "Media Poisoned" as well. History is quite clear: Cybele the Great Mater is a sow, Hathor is a cow, Amun-Ra is a ram, Baphomet is a goat and so on - they were not viewed as so pedestrian then. On the card The Prince of Blades has the head/colors of a rare heritage breed from Italy thought to be alive around the time of Abrasax's popularity as a symbol in Italy, and those colors Red or White and Black are traditional for Yin and Yang and the third, the child of Mystery, Jen in Trigrammaton. I actually tried to source some live birds but they are not exported from Italy they are considered a national treasure. Also, as an aside, I didn't think "oh I'm also going to give him a huge cock because he's a huge cock and that's ironic" i was just trying to get the proportions right from the foreshortening perspective. Well anyways the whole effect is PRETTY SILLY, I understand your reaction and i lol'd alot, because it was exactly the reaction I pictured as I flipped through the deck for the first time "AAAH gaaah get it out of my eye!!!". There's nothing that can be done about it now, but you can blame m1thr0s, but don't be too hard, he did mean well and most people really like it (especially our target audience which is 20-30 yo males in the USA).
Finally to the others suggesting we simplify the deck, you are dealing with two professional occultists and magicians deeply involved in a highly specialized branch of Hermetic Alchemy called Mutational Alchemy. Beyond that we have utmost reverence for The Great Work and the abode between the worlds. In our view the Earth is in a state of emergency and I have wept countless nights for it as I communed with her. The most unimaginable suffering and yearning for death are mine, to return to the holier place, but a worse fate - to allow HIM to manifest here alone in this rat trap is worse.
The practice we've only just begun to outline is the 9th limb of Yoga nothing less. You may not know the history of The Abrahadabra Institute or m1thr0s, but you don't need to know that to understand that this is a very complicated deck, and was never advertised as simple. I would be the first to tell people the THOTH is a better deck to begin with, despite what Fr. Novum reports to me that it is *friendly*. I told him "I have no idea if it is friendly to other people or if it's just you" as he has crossed the Abyss and has nothing but reverence for the tetractys and the realm beyond Ain Soph. Do the brothers think that is so common? I have only promised that all who want to work with it may, to their own peril. Our work always comes first. I don't want to "sell" it to anyone who doesn't already see its necessity- that would be dangerous for me to do anyways. I have everything I need. I live in luxury, happiness and marital bliss. There are always other ways to make money. I can tell you right now I would be killer on the stock market. It would be MUCH easier. I am surrounded by people who adore me and I have no need of followers. I need less of that and more focus on the commands of Ra Hoor Khut.
There are no degrees or secrets here, except those which are hidden behind a wall of understanding itself as well as the division. Even this can be rectified using certain tools. But the fact of the matter is is that both of us know exactly what we are doing and why. We're not associated with the OTO or the Golden Dawn. I will not apologize to Aleister Crowley or his fans for whatever I might say that I believe is the truth. I do not believe this is a game, this world and the situation it now finds itself in. The state of the world's knowledge is so mediocre compared to the world both I and m1thr0s are painfully aware of. Crowley is a lot stronger than many of his fans would believe, and quite active as well. There were alot of problems with the Thoth, starting with his disdain of women. He was human as are we all. His priestess - you'd have to be blind to ignore the tension and in-auspiciousness of Harris and Crowley's partnership. She was more righteous than he would admit then. However, it was a better alchemical marriage than some others.
We're an open book with regards to methodology so there is no need to guess at what we did. The hexagrams are NOT positioned according to the Hidden Diamond Sutra. (Even the THOTH deck classifies as a sutra - and we are AGAINST Buddhism in the conventional sense, as we are AGAINST all religions purporting to solve the *Raising of the Foundation* by circumventing it)
The hexagrams in this deck are positioned according to The Tree of Life and the Proximity Principle, as well as an arrangement called The Early Heaven Arrangement. The only term which is not well known is The Proximity Principle. You need to be able to understand all three of these items to "get" the Twin Trees Primordial Arrangement which is how the deck is constructed and I can point you to all three sources which are very carefully documented.
The Proximity Principle
http://abrahadabra.com/the-proximity-principle/
The Early Heaven Arrangement
http://mutationalalchemy.com/?attachment_id=755
Trees - The RED one is the Primordials, the combination of the Early Heaven and the Tree of Life using The Proximity Principle, this is the one the MAT is based on. There is also a Temporals Arrangement.
http://mutationalalchemy.com/?page_id=434
- HOWEVER COMPLEX THE HEXAGRAMS MAY SEEM -
You do not NEED to understand every little symbol for them to affect you. The I Ching especially is a Biofeedback system as illustrated HERE:
http://abrahadabra.com/dna-iching/
The Hidden Diamond Sutra has been found in ONE book which is so expensive I cannot afford a copy, (over a grand) and it's basically just a footnote it says "This is what happens when you connect all the paths together" it is out of print, I always forget the name of the guy off the top of my head, he is a Kabbalist though, and was presented two years after we found it independently as a group on the old Abrahadabra Forums. I have been told it is in Duquettes work it is NOT, I spent a good afternoon looking through my collection to see if I had somehow missed the @^#$%@ing thing because someone (FRATER NOVUM) told me it was in there. Well I did find it but the diagram is different and has nothing to do with the Tree of Life. If you knew how to USE the hidden diamond you would understand why it is so valuable. If you were able to analyze symbols to identify their occult properties you could understand it. You do not need to know how to use it in order to have it affect you.
And we have a study guide so you ARE able to analyze it appropriately with or without a natural analytical ability. As hermeticists and alchemists interested in the Royal Science of Tetragrammaton *any* meditation formula which can be done in 4-4 time is very valuable - the Hidden Diamond not only has that it's also got five unicursal hexagrams in it. More importantly IT CROSSES DA'ATH. I have been looking for a way to control Da'ath since I was a a teenager, and so has m1thr0s. Neither of us are idiots, and m1thr0s spent about three months solid studying the diamond when it first presented itself - another year where he was not glued to it. I have watched this pattern repeat itself over and over again with regards to him as he solved the arcane mysteries I needed resolved for myself *personally*. We do all of this stuff for ourselves *personally* and yet there is no need to fear sharing it with everyone else who was looking for these same answers.
http://abrahadabra.com/•-the-daath-hack-•/
That will tell you everything you ever need to know about the Hidden Diamond IF you actually use it and see for yourself.
If you can count to ten you can be a Mutational Alchemist, it's as easy as that. And this deck is very much intended for use with Mutational Alchemy. It's a starting point. If you are not interested in Mutational Alchemy you have to accept the fact that it may not be for you. I am trying to fashion a road to the light, and there is no other motive.
There was a time I said to myself that no one from Aeclectic Forums would ever buy a deck as our market was elsewhere. This was based on my own experience with a frustrating and restrictive forum I can never remember my screen name here and when I finally do I just find my posts removed for some ****ing reason. It hasn't encouraged me to buy a membership and it doesn't suit my style of discussion clearly. That doesnt mean i cannot enjoy the front end and I do so. But I didnt think that the membership body would at all be interested. That hasn't proven to be true but it still doesn't take away from the fact that it was never designed to please the *people*. I do know how to do that when I want to, but as it stands it's a grueling endeavor which accomplishes little. If my intention was to do that I would still be in concept art you know.
The work stands on its own merits and we have done our best to work with people who have been terrorized by new thought zanies so that they can validate the system for themselves and use it FOR FREE. There never has been a time when The Abrahadabra Institute charged for access to the Abrahadabra Proofs or the information on the TwinStar or Twin Trees or the countless other mirrors and proofs that have been unveiled over the years as core to this praxis.
The truth of the matter is no one can touch this deck mechanically yet. There will be other decks in the future which will surpass it, some by The Abrahadabra Institute itself. As an artist I will be the first to admit that there are better artists out there and there will always be a matter of *taste* where tarot art is concerned. My *facteur* is quite colorful and you rightly said so, garish, but this is *facteur* and does not at all reflect the framework of the deck itself. If you are interested in the art but want to discard the system, I sympathize as I had to approach m1's system from the outside once before, but it is not necessary to know all the hexagrams or even some of the symbols be affected by them. They are changing you at an often imperceptible level that cannot be prevented or blocked as soon as you look at them - even for a second. These are part of your DNA, part of your human heritage, as is the 16 court cards and the three, four, 5=6 and nine elements.
As I have said and will say again ever more - I and m1thr0s know exactly what we are doing and why. Those who do not understand that can only be assailed by their consternation if there is some kind of internal conflict already between them and their trues selves.
mithros
you aren't addressing children here. At 63 I have spent my entire adult life studying the occult and Crowley's work figures prominently into a lot of that. But I am not a Crowley worshipper and he HAS made serious errors throughout his work. And yes, I do think it's important to acknowledge that and claiming to have corrected these errors has nothing to do with making money or garnering fame. From a marketing standpoint saying nothing about him at all is probably best but I'm not in this for the money/glory which is pathetic at best anyway.
Spiffo
The more I read the more intriguing it all becomes.
There is something quite exciting happening, and even if I don't really understand it, yet, nothing happens just by chance.
Thanks for the update re postage, it's a bitch I know and independent deck produces suffer because of it. Looks like I will just have to give in and order two copies, to make it seem like a good deal.
There is something quite exciting happening, and even if I don't really understand it, yet, nothing happens just by chance.
Thanks for the update re postage, it's a bitch I know and independent deck produces suffer because of it. Looks like I will just have to give in and order two copies, to make it seem like a good deal.
Naomi Ningishzidda
Well, I promise you'll at least get lifetime support, and you'll be the only person in Aussie with one besides Solandia and one other person. :>
I have a list of stores that have requested wholesale - eventually I am going to try to make it happen. and I know the tetractys will always meet me halfway. I don't see the challenge as insurmountable, just we need a decade or more to really get going.
One of the things I want to emphasize is this is all real. Nothing we are trying to say or do is in any way a facade. Did you ever see Jurassic Park? The part where Hammond played by Sir Richard Attenborough talks about creating something real instead of an illusion affected me alot. That movie came out on my 13th birthday. When I came to m1thr0s he had to break down a lot of the conditioning I had come under the sway of with certain circles involving Chaos Magick and Ceremonial Magick and Goetia. He is a perfectionist and a realist. If you ever find an error or issue with the work he is always the first to examine and correct it, and if he doesn't think there is a correction to be made, he will tell you why and how to examine it rationally yourself in order to come to that conclusion yourself.
The goal with this work is to show a Man how to base their praxis in reality and certainty - not faith and wishful thinking. These are the kinds of *right thinking* and *right actions* that allow us to tackle the much more difficult task of Completion which not a single Man has ever achieved. We know that no one has achieved it because of the state of the world. There has however been an ongoing discussion handed down in a lineage that stretches back much further than Crowley of course.
I have to run but I look forward to discussing more. The feedback is always helpful it allows me to know what issues to tackle going into the future re: *Consciousness Stars* and the surrounding issues.
