Myers Briggs Types and the Court Cards

Hey, friends!

I have gone back and forth trying to figure this out for a while. I think it finally has come to me. Being an INTJ (described in my booklet as “theory-based, skeptical, and most independent”), I had to figure this out my way, and my way is very theoretical and abstract, almost mechanical.

In all my earlier tries, I couldn’t grasp the opposing qualities. Now I see they are positive/active and negative/receptive for each dichotomy. But that gave me 8 times 2???, not 4 times 4. Then I got this part from my booklet (got it at some random employee training class a while back).

E--I and J--P are on Attitude axes and
S--N and T--F are on Function axes.

There are my 4 by 4! Attitudes are suits, and Functions are ranks.

Then using the active and receptive modes for masculine and feminine suits and ranks, it all (pretty much mechanically) falls into place! Wands and Kings are most active, Cups and Queens are most receptive, Swords, Coins, Knights, and Princesses are mixed.

Attached are my chart of court cards and the type chart from the booklet with some characteristics. There are some correspondences that seem counter-intuitive (Queen of Coins is “most optimistic”?), but a closer look makes sense (Queen of Coins seeks harmony, is the life of the party, and starts more than she finishes)!

(I used A, B, C, D in my chart so I could see the + and - more clearly. I left my chart in an odd order so it corresponds with the booklet chart.)

MBTI folks, let me know what you think!

I have only had a few minutes to look this over but I realized I was getting really confused with the terms Attitudes and Functions.

For instance:

King Swords = ISTJ

I = Introversion - which you list as one of two "Energy Flow Attitudes" (Intro & Extraversion)

S = Sensing - which you list as one of two "Perceiving Functions" (Sensing & Intuiting)

T = Thinking - which you list as one of two "Judging Functions" (Thinking and Feeling)

J = Judging - which you list as one of two "Outer World Orientation Attitudes" (Judging and Perceiving)

Where I get confused is that:
The King of Swords manifests a Perceiving Function but not a Perceiving Attitude, and simultaneously both a Judging Function and a Judging Attitude. So, is it his distinction that he is 2x Judging and only 1x Perceiving?

Why use the terms Judging and Perceiving for the Functions as well as the Attitudes? I guess I hadn't realized before that the 4 core Functions were defined primarily by whether they were Judging or Perceiving.

I’m going to try to explain what I’ve read, but the attached will explain it better. A picture is worth a thousand words!

The main “attitude” is how one prefers his Energy to Flow, outward or inward: Extraversion or Introversion.

The other attitude is Outer World Orientation: Judging or Perceiving. Everyone judges AND perceives. The “attitude” is whether one PREFERS to Judge or to Perceive the outer world.

The “functions” are HOW one prefers to Judge: by Thinking or by Feeling

And how one prefers to Perceive: by Sensing or by iNtuition

The picture shows the way the “attitudes” and “functions” are linked.

Quote from the booklet: “Myers added this dimension [“General Outer-world Orientation Attitude”] to Jung’s work. One of the functions (Perception or Judgment) is used more in the external world and so the last letter of a type (J or P) tells us which function that is.”

I hope this makes sense.

Great - I had never heard that explanation before. It makes a lot of sense.

So the King of Swords perceives by Sensing (vs Intuiting) and judges by Thinking (vs Feeling), and his attitude to the external world is more Judging than Perceiving (which emphasizes Thinking over Sensing), plus he prefers his energy to flow inward.

This last piece is determined in comparison to the King of Wands whose type is the same except that he prefers his energy to flow outward.

Right? Have I got it now?

I'm not sure if I see the King of Swords and the King of Wands as approaching life in exactly the same way except one has energy that flows outward and the other inward. Have to think more about that.

I've listed several different sets of MBPI correspondences in my book on the Tarot Court, so I'll have to see how this information works with the associations made there.

I formulated my own set based on type descriptions fitting the particular Court Cards, because I felt all the "systems" failed to succeed at some point.

Well, I'm a systems kind of girl, but I'm going to have to play with this for a while to see if it really works for me.

As for the King of Swords and King of Wands, yes, there is only one "letter" difference between them because they're both kings of active suits. So their difference is the difference between a Wands attitude and a Swords attitude. The Wands attitude is more E, focused on doing things out in the world; the Swords attitude is more I, focused on the internal activities of thinking and analysis (and systems!).

I think this afternoon I'll spread out some court cards, get your book off my shelf, and have a serious play (oh, I mean STUDY).

One thing that I liked is that you didn't make all the masculine into extraverts and the feminine courts into introverts.

rachelcat said:

MBTI folks, let me know what you think!

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it! I think being an INTJ as well, I can relate easily to your approach. I especially like the suit being the "attitude" and the court being the "function". Now that you "get it" I think you will begin to find the linkages become a little... fuzzy, because the courts never fit exactly into the "MTBI box". However, the interplay between the 2, such as what you have defined, helped me to add a new dimension of understanding to the courts as well.

I will throw one little twist at you to think about. You separated both the iNtuitive and Sensory people by Thinking and Feeling. Keirsey separated the iNtuitive people by Thinking and Feeling, but found this didn’t work well for him when defining the Sensory people. Thus, he separated the Sensory people by Perceiving and Judging. However, Keirsey’s perspective is only “external”, not “internal”.

Ah! I just like 10 minutes ago discovered Keirsey's system! (Gotta love Wikipedia!) I like the way he has names for large groups and then smaller groups, and then pairs, and then each type. I don't know about his attributions though. And what they'll do to mine . . .

Time for more studying!

From the back cover of Kiersey's "Please Understand Me II":

Each of us . . . has four kinds of intelligence -- tactical, logistical, diplomatic, strategic -- though one of the four interests us far more than the others, and thus gets far more practice than the rest. Like four suits in a hand of cards, we each have a long suit and a short suit in what interests us and what we do well, and fortunate indeed are those whose work matches their skills.

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The four temperments AND cards . . . What's not to like?

I think this is going onto my Kindle now . . .

Kiersey Temperaments

More court-type noodling from me!

As mentioned above, Kiersey was inspired by MB and used its letter formulas, but differs in focus and method. His focus is more on behavior rather than preferences.

And the method is very interesting. It divides everyone by 2, then divides them by 2, and again, and again, to get 16 types. And every group has a role name and an action. I was originally attracted to this theory because of the cool names like “Field Marshall” and “Mastermind,” but now that I’ve looked into it a little more, I feel like someone dumped a bucket of keywords over my head!

Kiersey was also inspired by Classical and Renaissance four elements and temperaments. Checking my handy alchemy book for the wet-dry and cold-hot, his first two splits to get the four elements are:

Abstract/Introspective (Wet) or Concrete/Observant (Dry)

Then these two are split into Cooperative (Cold) or Utilitarian (Hot), to give us:

Abstract/Introspective/Wet + Cooperative/Cold = Idealist/Diplomatic (Water)

Abstract/Introspective/Wet + Utilitarian/Hot = Rational/Strategic (Air)

Concrete/Observant/Dry + Cooperative/Cold = Guardian/Logistical (Earth)

Concrete/Observant/Dry + Utilitarian/Hot = Artisan/Tactical (Fire)

See what I mean about the keywords??!!

The last two splits are:

Directive + or Informative - and

Expressive + or Attentive -

As I did with the MB, I assigned active and receptive to these to help me figure out the ranks: Kings ++, Queens --, Knights -+, Princesses +-

(I have been trying to decide if I should switch knights and princesses, but the proof is in the pudding, and the names for the knights seem to work better for knights.)

So without further ado, attached is my Kiersey Temperaments Courts table. I have not put in any MB letters because they way Kiersey uses them is confusing. And they totally conflict with my MB table! Note that the (kings and princesses) and (knights and queens) for each suit share a name. A function of the third set of divisions into Directive or Informative.

Let me know what you think about the names/titles. I rather like them, whether I like the way we got to them or not!