OOTK initial step - four piles - let's try it

rif

I've look at this twice and I can't find anything that I disagree with in your interpretation. You wrote a beautifully concise summary!

The Princess could also indicate Andrea's tendency towards being willful and direct; she may want to just get all of her opinions out there, and tell her father what she thinks of the situation.

I don't know that I'd call the Knight (slightly) ill-dignified, although I understand your rationale with passive water vs. active air. I do agree with your description.

I see you broke down and assigned the courts to actual people this time.

I would agree with your roles.

I could see the Heirophant as indicative of Andrea's desire to have a normal relationship with her family (that is, conform to traditional family roles) -- which is not happening as long as there is an inability to communicate among family members.

I like your focus on the stagnation for the 7 of cups. It does suggest that things aren't likely to move, given the players' current views on things. To layer on meaning (via RWS), perhaps one or both of them has unrealistic goals in mind for the outcome of this situation. While those pipe dreams are envisioned, nothing is going to happen.

This just feels like an uncomfortable, or unsettled, spread to me. I get a negative vibe overall.

I will strive to be equally concise when I post the next one. Meanwhile, I've gotta run for a meeting.

thorhammer

rif said:
I don't know that I'd call the Knight (slightly) ill-dignified, although I understand your rationale with passive water vs. active air. I do agree with your description.

Ah! I called him "slightly" ill-dignified because he is the Fiery part of Air, so whilst water and air don't necessarily ill-dignify each other, the fiery part brings a bad element. (I like to over-complicate. Forgive me

).

I see you broke down and assigned the courts to actual people this time. I would agree with your roles.

*grin* only the Princess! I saw the Hierophant as the father

you've not broken me yet! :laugh:

I like your focus on the stagnation for the 7 of cups. It does suggest that things aren't likely to move, given the players' current views on things. To layer on meaning (via RWS), perhaps one or both of them has unrealistic goals in mind for the outcome of this situation. While those pipe dreams are envisioned, nothing is going to happen.

Mm, good layering, didn't occur to me because that card image just doesn't say that to me. But I can def. see the link.

Thanks for the f/b. Much as I love your company, rif, I really wish the lurkers would come forth!

\m/ Kat

Teheuti

thorhammer said:
.....Heh (final)..........Vav..........Heh (initial)..........Yod.....
.....Earth.................Air...............Water..............Fire.....
...7 of Cups........Hierophant......Kn Swords......Princess Disks

I thought your interpretation was very apt. Good work. I also agree that the Knight of Swords as the Fiery part of Air is not terribly well dignified in Water. He might want to make mincemeat of tender emotions and discount (or be impatient with) feelings.

From a purely GD pov this is meant to just give a quick overview. Of course the "real" answer would lie in the stack in which the significator is found. Often it was only these first two stages that were used: 1) dividing the deck in four stacks, and 2) reading the horseshoe made up of the significator's stack. In this 2nd step the cards were read both in triplicites and in pairs. For instance, if the answer lay in the Yod pile it might be more positive than if it lay in either of the two Heh stacks.

thorhammer

Teheuti said:
I thought your interpretation was very apt. Good work. I also agree that the Knight of Swords as the Fiery part of Air is not terribly well dignified in Water. He might want to make mincemeat of tender emotions and discount (or be impatient with) feelings.

Cheers. Yep, I thought he was a bit out of his element, as it were.

From a purely GD pov this is meant to just give a quick overview. Of course the "real" answer would lie in the stack in which the significator is found. Often it was only these first two stages that were used: 1) dividing the deck in four stacks, and 2) reading the horseshoe made up of the significator's stack. In this 2nd step the cards were read both in triplicites and in pairs. For instance, if the answer lay in the Yod pile it might be more positive than if it lay in either of the two Heh stacks.

When I use this spread, I go into the next step; but instead of triplicates (of which I've not heard) I use the counting method as outlined on the SuperTarot website (I think that's the one?) and briefly in the Book of Thoth. Then I pair the cards, but tbh the pairing doesn't add much to the situation for me.

\m/ Kat

ETA: Would you like to offer a scenario, Mary? rif and I have been using different decks, though we've been focussing on GD/Thoth decks (so perhaps one like the MerryDay might be a bit difficult).

Teheuti

thorhammer said:
instead of triplicates (of which I've not heard) I use the counting method as outlined on the SuperTarot website (I think that's the one?) and briefly in the Book of Thoth.

The counting method is what determines the triplicities. You read the card to which the counting brings you, along with the card on either side of it (=3). And then you pair the cards from either end of the horseshoe (sometimes resulting in a single card, rather than a pair, in the exact middle). The whole technique can be found in Wang's Introduction to the Golden Dawn Tarot and in Regardie's Golden Dawn book.

ETA: Would you like to offer a scenario, Mary? . . . (so perhaps one like the MerryDay might be a bit difficult).

No. As I said, I thought you did a good job of interpreting the four cards. And what does the MerryDay Tarot have to do with it? I must have missed something here.

thorhammer

Teheuti said:
No. As I said, I thought you did a good job of interpreting the four cards. And what does the MerryDay Tarot have to do with it? I must have missed something here.

rif and I are taking turns in postulating fictional or not-so-fictional querents - I just thought you might like to join in. And I mentioned the MerryDay as an example of a more non-GD deck, which might not work quite so well in the framework we've been using.

\m/ Kat

rif

Hi Teheuti,

Teheuti said:
I thought your interpretation was very apt. Good work. I also agree that the Knight of Swords as the Fiery part of Air is not terribly well dignified in Water. He might want to make mincemeat of tender emotions and discount (or be impatient with) feelings.

Thanks for dropping by. We have fun here, but it's nice to see a new poster, even if you're just passing through.

From a purely GD pov this is meant to just give a quick overview.

That's true. We've found it a good exercise as a reading that incorporates elemental dignities, even if only in pairs (YHVH pile + card). The relative brevity is also easier to work with in forum postings, I think, than a full-fledged 20-ish card horseshoe.

thorhammer said:
When I use this spread, I go into the next step; but instead of triplicates (of which I've not heard) I use the counting method as outlined on the SuperTarot website...

If you've followed the site then you probably are using triplicities. When you land on a counted card and read it while taking into account the elemental dignities of the two neighboring cards, that is the tiplicity that I believe Teheuti is referring to.

My impression is that supertarot takes the meanings of the surrounding cards into greater account and "blends" them more than a pure Book T approach would do. Every time I work with Book T my opinion changes though.

Teheuti, would you say it's true that in Book T's examples, the surrounding cards of a trio provide support and dignity to the center card, rather than blending their meanings?

As far as joining us, we keep periodically hinting that any viewers are welcome to post their own scenarios, or give feedback on ours. I don't know if people avoid us because it's OOTK, or because we're buried in the Golden Dawn subforum. I'm glad you offered some feedback, Teheuti; feel free to peek in at any point. It's always welcome to get feedback from someone who has experience with these methods.

Teheuti

rif said:
Teheuti, would you say it's true that in Book T's examples, the surrounding cards of a trio provide support and dignity to the center card, rather than blending their meanings?

It's a little bit of both, but primarily giving (or not giving) support to the center card.

Mary

Grigori

rif said:
I don't know if people avoid us because it's OOTK, or because we're buried in the Golden Dawn subforum.

Probably a bit of both

I'm eager to play, but not ready as yet. But next week I have a long plane flight and a GD tome to keep me occupied. I expect to be up to speed in the near future :thumbsup:

In the meantime I am really enjoying reading though

psyphy

Mhhh,
just wondering if anyone might be interested in resurrecting this thread ... I´d really love to see it revived and throw in a few cards/interps here and there.
BTW: some ... years ago I studied M.Sadhus "The Tarot", in which he explains the meaning of the Yod-Heh-Vau-Heh at great length from all kinds of perspectives, and though I don´t remember too much of it, there´ve been other layers of possible meanings that came to my mind while I read my way through this thread. I´m still pondering over a new [?] sort of universal ED based 4 card spread to replace my old standard. Guess I have to look for that book as soon as I´m back home.
So maybe ...

Kashi

OOTK initial step - four piles - let's try it

rif

thorhammer

Teheuti

thorhammer

Teheuti

thorhammer

rif

Teheuti

Grigori

psyphy