Book of Law Study Group 1.60

Grigori

thorhammer said:
Might the "black" refer to the impression among those not aware of the finer points of Thelema that it's all "black magick"? (This reminds me of a certain PM I sent you a few days back :laugh:). Hence, the ignorant ("blind") see Thelema as being black magick, but the ones whose eyes have been opened to the possibility of something else see blue and gold.

Yes perhaps you could take that argument and run with it :D

thorhammer said:
What correspondences do blue and gold have? (I don't have the requisite resources - I'm in the middle of moving :D).

I think lapis lazuli was often assocatiated with Nuit, which is blue with gold. Also from a european perspective they are the colors of royality, only the very rich could afford blue dye and gold metal.
 

Aeon418

I'm thinking of the Universe card at this point. Saturn in the Queen scale is black. But that card could hardly be called dead. It looks vibrant with life to me.
 

thorhammer

Aeon418 said:
I'm thinking of the Universe card at this point. Saturn in the Queen scale is black. But that card could hardly be called dead. It looks vibrant with life to me.
It's also rich with shades of blue and gold. With black highlights.

And not only features, but looks like an eye.

\m/ Kat
 

Grigori

Also I have a secret glory for them that love me.

So..... Nuit lovers.... cough it up. What's the secret? :D
 

Aeon418

similia said:
So..... Nuit lovers.... cough it up. What's the secret? :D
Here's my interpretation.

Secret in Hebrew is Sod (SVD). Glory is Hod (HVD).

The lover of Nuit is Hadit. We have already been told to be him in verse 6, where he is identified as her secret centre. Hadit is also related to the letter Yod of IHVH. Yod-Sod (YSVD) = Yesod.

The path between Yesod and Hod is the path of Resh and Atu XIX The Sun.
The Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel is the opening of consciousness into the level of Briah, which is attributed to the letter Heh, the letter of Nuit.
 

RLG

Aeon418 said:
Knowledge, in the mental sense, is merely a relationship between facts.

Dwtw
I countered your statement that 'knowledge, as such, does not exist'. But it most certainly does exist, just as much as the number 11 exists. Then you proceed to tell me it is nothing more than a relationship. Do relationships not exist either? (that's a rhetorical question, BTW)

Aeon418 said:
Here you seem to be lumping all knowledge into one basket, but anyway...

I am not lumping all knowledge together. That's your misunderstanding. I am merely listing a number of instances where the word 'know' is used in Liber AL. Presumably it has a certain importance in the text, or else it would not be referred to so many times. So I have lumped all instances of the word together, but that is not the same as concluding that they all mean the same thing.

The rest of what you have to say is your misreading of what was written, and projections of your own. I made no definitions of any of the instances of 'knowledge' in Liber AL. My only point was that it has an ontological status in the text. But I'd rather not get into a discussion about ontology. Save it for Liber A'ash.

As usual, you're picking at minutiae and have little to say about the broad theme of my posts. You seem more concerned about being right than about having a dialogue. But I guess it's important for you to have all that 'knowledge'...which means in your terms that you have nothing at all.

Litlluw
RLG
 

Aeon418

RLG said:
But it most certainly does exist, just as much as the number 11 exists.
Ok, define 11 for me without relating it to other ideas. 11 is a number you say. Well that's one piece of relative knowledge right there. But what is a number? A number is a mathematical object used in counting and measurement. Ok, so what is mathematics? What is an object? What is counting? What is measurement?

Do you see where this is going yet?
RLG said:
As usual, you're picking at minutiae and have little to say about the broad theme of my posts.
You can paint with as big a brush as you like, but it's not my fault if it turns out to be less than perfect on closer inspection.

For example, going back to your original post I noticed in your "broad theme" how you tried to conflate the Abyss with Daath. They're not the same thing.
I'm sure you consider it to be nothing more than trivial minutiae and yet another example of my fault finding. But your analogy with the Tuat is based on this.
RLG said:
You seem more concerned about being right than about having a dialogue.
If that's the way you see it, fine. To avoid upsetting you further I will refrain from commenting on your posts in future.
 

Grigori

Moderator Note

Perhaps we can focus on discussing the subject and not dissecting each other please lads :) It would be a shame for everyone to miss out on two interesting & informed points of view, just because aspects of the opinion disagree :(
 

ravenest

similia said:
I"m very curious about this color reference. A check of the GD color scales shows none of the sephiroth/paths have a attribution of black and also blue and gold. Scratch that theory! :laugh: Instead can we think of black as nothing, the absence of color? Though I'm also reminded that she's often loosely equated with Binah, which is black in the Queen scale. I've seen a few depictions of Nuit and blue with gold, I think that is traditional no?

Yes, I've seen that, also blue and gold alternating 'oblongs' as decorative boarders ... (not near my library so) ... I'll look it up in the Egyptian traditional color scale as to what it represents ... also on the Nemyss it is often featured (see Tut's) ... it is a little unusual as it doesnt have the primary red and green (which makes sense the abscence of red ... seeing blood is not offered to Nu), but it doesnt have the green of vegetative life(perhaps the blue of the 'waters' of heaven?). Anyway, I'll get back on that one.

Ummmm ... there is an obvious one that no one seems to have noticed yet (too busy with arguments? O you centres of pestilence :laugh:) ....

Go outside on a clear dark night ... and look up. ;)
 

ravenest

similia said:
I think lapis lazuli was often assocatiated with Nuit, which is blue with gold. Also from a european perspective they are the colors of royality, only the very rich could afford blue dye and gold metal.

Yes, Nu is deffinatly associated with lapis lazuli . Lapis itself (a good specimen) is said to represent the night sky so the link with Nu is quiet strong there.