Oppression

Scion said:

This is Malkuth in Atziluth, the most intangible inspired element in its most degraded and polluted form. Imagine the initial divine spark has burnt out, smoldered for as long as it could, and now is suffocating under a thick layer of ash.

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Oh, Scion, I think you're being unfair to Malkuth. This is the place of the Daughter who is pregnant with the Ace of the next World - Briah/Cups. Not that birth is without pain. In this context, I see the 10 of Wands as like the excuciatingly painful pressure on the lowest vertebrae of the spine that sometimes occurs during the birthing process. You just have to push through it.

In the GD paper on the Tarot in the Four Worlds:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=96096
we find:

Ten of Wands: (Malkuth of Atziluth, Oppression, Saturn in Sagittarius) Fixed and completed force. Adonai Malekh = The Power of Earth as a King. The two give to the Fire of Wands an overpowering Force which = Cruelty. Gloomy Saturn rides but does not control the fire of the Centaur Sagittarius which is the Airy Fire. Such fierce blast of Fire whirls to the Male Kerub, Metatron, in Kether of Briah. [The Divine Impulse … by growing materially powerful becomes sheer cruelty and oppression.]

Here it becomes a "fierce blast of Fire," on which Saturn rides—wonderful metaphor. There's no suffocation here (unless it is of others through fire depriving them of air).

Crowley, in _Astrology: Your Place Among the Stars_ tends to wax poetic (and positive) about Saturn in Sagittarius, whereas he could have been equally cruel but wasn't for some reason.

It can, he says, when strongly spiritualized, become great altruism (as in Abraham Lincoln). "The altruism is therefore very spontaneous and yet well restrained by great practicality." He also notes that it can be courageous and uncompromising.

OTOH, this combination can be cold and selfish. Also, "mingled fire and melancoly."

The RWS card hints that oppression can be willingly undertaken when one feels great responsibility to a philosophy or ideals.

I feel that to the spirit, it is the 'mingled fire and melancoly' necessary to maintain purpose and direction under the weight of Malkuth or increased burdens.

Mary

You're probably right, Mary... I was IN IT the day I wrote that. And as Lon always says The Princess of Disks is the spring (in every sense of the word) that keeps the universe running.

As I said, this is one of those cards with which I have a special relationship... so it isn't that I think it is positive or negative, but rather extreme in A direction depending on context.

X

S

Teheuti said:

Crowley, in _Astrology: Your Place Among the Stars_ tends to wax poetic (and positive) about Saturn in Sagittarius, whereas he could have been equally cruel but wasn't for some reason.

It can, he says, when strongly spiritualized, become great altruism (as in Abraham Lincoln). "The altruism is therefore very spontaneous and yet well restrained by great practicality." He also notes that it can be courageous and uncompromising.

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I think most people see saturn in its position (or dynamic) as if one were 'going down the Tree', ie. percieved liberation taking form, structure and discipline as opposed to 'going up the Tree' , percieved form structure and discipline, being dissolved (or leading) to liberation.

In any case I still think Sagg. needs to grounded or earthed or focused on the practical (not as much as Aquarius needs it, but it still needs it).

Moderators: This thread would be great in the Study Groups section under the card. Thanks!

I am still watching this thread and appreciating the feedback which is all very meaningful to me. I have put down my cards, because they can be wonderfully distracting, and am focusing on the message of the 10 of Wands.
So I haven't wondered off to run the hills. I do hope this thread continues. This card does have the depth I was hoping for.

I just started working with the Thoth (even dreamed in Thoth last night...I was a Wands card...The Knight and/or the Prince), so I am not steeped in kabbalah or EDs or any of that (yet). I'm just going by the images on the cards and what they said to me.

Teh 10 of Wands cards had the eight thinnish wands in a kind of lattice shape, and on top were two thick, darker, stronger-looking wands, parallel to each other.

I got a sense of rising above obstacles (note that the two were, again, on top of the other eight)--not ignoring the obstacles, but just taking them in stride as you move toward your goal.

I also got a sense of couples, the two, a duo (I got the same sense from the 5 of Wands card...similar wands placement, with the two on top of the others). Like two people who are sticking together despite obstacles...for example, a couple who wants to stay together despite circumstantial difficulties (both don't have much money, family disapproval, etc)...they rise above and see it through--TOGETHER.

Just my newbie $.02.

T.

afrosaxon said:

I also got a sense of couples, the two, a duo (I got the same sense from the 5 of Wands card...similar wands placement, with the two on top of the others). Like two people who are sticking together despite obstacles...for example, a couple who wants to stay together despite circumstantial difficulties (both don't have much money, family disapproval, etc)...they rise above and see it through--TOGETHER.

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You can also turn this on it's head. Many people stay together simply because they feel they have no other choice. It's very common for people to stay in loveless relationships/marriages out of fear, for economic reasons, or family/societal pressure.

41. The word of Sin is Restriction. O man! refuse not thy wife, if she will! O lover, if thou wilt, depart! There is no bond that can unite the divided but love: all else is a curse. Accursed! Accursed be it to the aeons! Hell.

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Hi Aeon 418. I've seen this quote before, but can't remember where it is from. I figured Book of Thoth, but couldn't find it.

Hey Afrosaxon. Hope you enjoy the Thoth. Looking forward to your insights.

AW

Always Wondering said:

Hi Aeon 418. I've seen this quote before, but can't remember where it is from. I figured Book of Thoth, but couldn't find it.

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It's from the The Book of the Law. Chp.1, verse 41.

Oh yes, the 41 should have been a clue.

It's a nice verse and I thinK I would take inspration from it. Except I don't get the "Oh lover, if thou wilt, depart" line. Is this an unloved lover? Or is "Aiwass" saying if you've got a willing mate loose the lover? Or is the wife the lover?

Just a little piece I can't fit into my understanding of love under will.
I also find it a little ironic considering whose mouth it came out of. Maybe I'm getting hung up on that.

Any thoughts?

AW