gregory
Good point - many of the large special ones you don't like, G6, are limited and sell out anyway.
User Experiences of Tarot Card Design
cirom
That simply is not the case, most larger sized decks tend to be special editions of some kind. YOU may be that rigid in your selective determination of size that you refuse to buy such decks, but so what ????, thats not really a lost sale, its just a delayed sale, because someone else will buy it later. Unless an artist is unfortunate enough to be left with unsold inventory. However when that happens its probably more to do with a misjudgment and over confidence of the potential demand for the deck in question. That could be for many reasons, from the theme, style of artwork and of course the price point. The size of the deck would be far down the list of reasons for that deck to end up in "less hands"
Now I accept (as you stated earlier) that you may not consider me an authority and you would be right, I am not. But I believe I do have several reference points of real world examples and comparison to reach my opinions, rather than making assumptions for a very diverse industry simply based on personal preferences...
I respect those preference and you sticking to your principal, but if your think artists/publishers are going make decisions based on them, you are mistaken because quite simply, not enough people share your views. You seem very emphatic in your stance and seems like you won't compromise.....well good for you, but neither will the vast majority of artists/publishers. So who is actually losing out here?
gregory
You may not be an "authority" but you do have a lot of experience of what will sell - and I know your large cards always sell out
As do MRP's, full sized Thoths and so on (and in that example, the number of people posting here how they wished they had started with the 5 inch size and how much better it is to work with is legion !) And Schiffer decks also sell very well, large though most of them are.There is a variety of opinion here. Basically, it is all down to "buy the size you like". There is no reason at all that those of us who like variety should be deprived of that variety, basically because of a particular person's shuffling method. You lose on things like the Roches - but it IS your choice - and that one would not work in a Lo Scarabeo size. It isn't down to hand size - nisaba has proved that - and her hands are minute and her shuffling method is much like you describe yours.
Barleywine
It really does come down to personal preference. I would rather not have the mechanics of handling become a high-focus area, no more than it is in shuffling a pack of playing cards. I've bought a small number of "large-footprint" decks and they just don't work for me because of their awkwardness in the hand. Maybe if any one of them had even a remote chance of becoming as esteemed in my practice as my large-format Thoth, I'd make the effort to accomodate that. That said, I've started to prefer my standard-size Thoth lately, so I guess I'm a lost cause.
G6
Couldn't disagree with you more, Cirom.
There are plenty of makers/publishers in this camp and I have personally spoken with some them that very much "get it", for example, the makers of Oracle X who happen to be male, which in my view, gender has little to do with deck ergonomics, and they use poker size for ease of use. Another example, the maker of the Timeless Tarot that states in her marketing materials that her deck is 2 7/8 x 4 1/8 inches for ease of use. As mentioned earlier, LoScar set the iPhone standard. The list goes on and on and on and on...
These deck makers all likely use tarot decks with frequency or they take deck egronomics seriously because they have respect for their customers, and they are not trying to give them Carpal tunnel syndrome from printing oversized decks to simply satisfy their overweening artistic egos.
gregory
We get it, G6, Ciro understands what you wish for too. But you are in a small minority in this thread at least, and, I'd bet, in the tarot community in general.
Uniformity is dull; smaller cards restrict the art. It has nothing to do with overweening artistic egos. It has to do with lovely art. I personally think it's a bit off to say artists have overweening egos. They are artists; why should they have to do what you happen to want ? You have no idea oif the size of their egos; you are second guessing because they won't work to your requirements..
Tell me how this would have worked in 2.5x4.75. Tell me we would be better off if Ly had modified his art to fit your requirements.
This one did show up in a smaller size. There is no comparison; it lost so much..
Here's another that couldn't shrink.
And what about this ?
I've used all these with no problems - though I admit overhand shuffling wouldn't have worked with the last two.
You are saying that these artists should have thought about you and the little cards you prefer and just - given up on their lovely work ? I don't think so. And I don't think it's ego -when have you seen any of them on here boasting. Ly comes here, and is as self-effacing as they come - the others - I've never seen here at all. How can they be said to be being egoistic ? They just produced some lovely art for very many of us to enjoy. And use.
So don't buy them. But don't ask people/publishers to deprive the rest of us, please. And please don't guess at artists' characters unless you know them personally. (I would vouch for Ciro, having met him and talked at length - but you wouldn't believe me, so...)
Uniformity is dull; smaller cards restrict the art. It has nothing to do with overweening artistic egos. It has to do with lovely art. I personally think it's a bit off to say artists have overweening egos. They are artists; why should they have to do what you happen to want ? You have no idea oif the size of their egos; you are second guessing because they won't work to your requirements..
Tell me how this would have worked in 2.5x4.75. Tell me we would be better off if Ly had modified his art to fit your requirements.
This one did show up in a smaller size. There is no comparison; it lost so much..
Here's another that couldn't shrink.
And what about this ?
I've used all these with no problems - though I admit overhand shuffling wouldn't have worked with the last two.
You are saying that these artists should have thought about you and the little cards you prefer and just - given up on their lovely work ? I don't think so. And I don't think it's ego -when have you seen any of them on here boasting. Ly comes here, and is as self-effacing as they come - the others - I've never seen here at all. How can they be said to be being egoistic ? They just produced some lovely art for very many of us to enjoy. And use.
So don't buy them. But don't ask people/publishers to deprive the rest of us, please. And please don't guess at artists' characters unless you know them personally. (I would vouch for Ciro, having met him and talked at length - but you wouldn't believe me, so...)
EmpressArwen
But what of us with larger hands? I only own one poker sized deck and though I love it...it's awkward for me to handle. I feel like a giant trying to play with doll furniture. My hands cramp up using it.
Plus, I don't like to squint to see details on the cards. I enjoy a bigger picture. Not everyone is the same and there are cards and sizes for everyone. "Overweening artistic egos"?? because they want the details of their work to be able to be seen?
It surprises me that you would think that what you like the best is best for everyone...and go so far as to contact publishers to get the standard to be your standard.
cirom
Once again you are making assumptions. Its not a question of overweening artistic ego (if I had written that the mods would have given me a slap on the wrist). I'll be honest with you though, when I first produced a deck, it never occurred to me that it might be too large for someone to work with without getting carpal tunnel syndrome. So you can't accuse me (although YOU probably can) of not respecting my customers because I really had no clue, I just thought it was a descent size., and after all were sold, no one complained. Nor did they for the follow up decks either. Now Im not claiming that had they complained I would necessarily have changed my approach for the next project, because I probably wouldn't have. But its a mute point because as I said i didn't relieve one complaint regarding size. In fact the only time that I did receive feedback about size, was in reference to my Lenormand deck. Even then it wasn't because the deck was too big to shuffle, but rather because of the often used Grand Tableau which uses the entire deck and hence occupied more table area.. But back to my main point, if approximately 15 years and 7500 special edition "larger sized"deck sales later, no one has actually complained about the size, I conclude that your assumption that people like myself are not showing respect to my customers and simply satisfying my overweening ego is not supported by the evidence. Maybe part of the reason that my customers at least don't seem to mind the size, is because I actually indicate the size on my web site, so they are fully aware beforehand. This isn't my opinion verses yours, its actual statistics and math...... not guesswork. You are in your rights to think as you do and have your opinions, but you are wrong to assume that most other think the same, because they don't....
Zephyros
Moderator Note:
Since this thread has been exhaustively discussed and the same points are being put forth again and again I'm closing the thread and leaving it as it is. Thank you all for a fascinating discussion.
Zephyros
Since this thread has been exhaustively discussed and the same points are being put forth again and again I'm closing the thread and leaving it as it is. Thank you all for a fascinating discussion.
Zephyros
