User Experiences of Tarot Card Design

About modification, I don't enjoy "hacking up" people's art and that's not the point. I would prefer to never have to modify a deck. Deck makers and publishers should consider that if many folks are modifying their decks they are poorly designed for usability.

PIC: Deviant Moon Borderless vs. LoScar

Image below of size comparison Deviant Moon Borderless and a standard LoScar deck.

DM is roughly LoScar size just a tad taller and it's noticeable when shuffling. Still usable, but on the edge of acceptable.

PIC: Two Decks That Are Too Wide

Here's an example of two decks that are both too wide. DruidCraft on the left was modified and is more usable, but still oversized/not great to work with for shuffling. Crystal Tarot (Permutt) on the right is too big and unable to modify/not usable for proper shuffling.

***The point between these comparisons is that you can get away with more length if the width is 2.5 inches or less.

Standard LoScar decks are 2.5 x 4.5 inches.

DruidCraft modified 3 x 4.5 inches.

Crystal Tarot 3 x 5 inches.

G6 said:

About modification, I don't enjoy "hacking up" people's art and that's not the point. I would prefer to never have to modify a deck. Deck makers and publishers should consider that if many folks are modifying their decks they are poorly designed for usability.

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I probably shouldn't have used the work hacking, and I apologize.

But I think bonebeach's points are true about the big publishers - they don't make decisions that affect a minority of buyers. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but it is a thing. I can't back it up with numbers, but I don't believe there are enough that trim decks for a publisher like Schiffer, for instance, to consider trimmers in their design process.

Small publishers, sure. Anyone who's posting their decks here in Tarot Creation, definitely. That's part of the point of sharing the work in progress, to get feedback (hopefully offered with respect and appreciation)

The other thing - in terms of trying to get publishers to do what "we" want - is that we don't - even here - all agree about what sizes etc are good, bad or indifferent. I have only EVER trimmed two decks - one was the Thoth, to see the geometry, and the other was that appalling Pink, where the bottom of the cards was taken up with an artist's business card. In the latter case many of us DID complain, but even a creator here kept saying it was OK, and we'd learn to love it. (though they have now put a version without all that up on gamecrafter )

I have never seen the need. One or two have too much white space - but other than that - they're fine. And specifically - that Permutt - no problem ! I will admit that Druidcraft is a challenge to shuffle - but not an insurmountable one.

Laura Borealis said:

I probably shouldn't have used the work hacking, and I apologize.

But I think bonebeach's points are true about the big publishers - they don't make decisions that affect a minority of buyers. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but it is a thing. I can't back it up with numbers, I don't believe there are enough that trim decks for a publisher like Schiffer, for instance, to consider trimmers in their design process.

Small publishers, sure. Anyone who's posting their decks here in Tarot Creation, definitely. That's part of the point of sharing the work in progress, to get feedback (hopefully offered with respect and appreciation)

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No offense taken, I just want to be clear about the reason why people modify. It has nothing to do with the artwork it is an issue with the size of the deck.

These posts are about coming to a consensus about what size fits well in most hands, not just the modifier subset.

LoScar gets this and that is why their standard deck width is 2.5 inches. Deviant Moon Borderless got it and that's why they used the same width.

These posts are also to get deck makers and publishers into the mindset of how these decks are used and what works best for most users.

The worst approach to design is this gallery mindset of "My work would look even better as big as it can go..." To that I say, "Get a gallery show for your deck imagery." If you are creating an actual deck for tarot readers to use with their hands the width should be 2.5 inches or less.

There is nothing more annoying than not being able to buy a deck you like because it is oversized.

Morwenna said:

Two of those I recognize, and I like them all.

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Me too good card backs. It would be a fun thread to start to guess card backs. ;-)

G6 said:

No offense taken, I just want to be clear about the reason why people modify. It has nothing to do with the artwork it is an issue with the size of the deck.

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Yes, but as an artist (if not a very good one) I know I'd be disgruntled if someone cut up a deck I'd published, no matter their reasons are. I would feel like my art is being attacked. Unless it was just to remove a white or black border.

I noticed Marie White trimmed her own deck after Schiffer burdened it with those heavy black borders. But her card back can handle it, as it's a simple design, centered and surrounded by flat black.

I didn't mean that the user experience doesn't matter, or that your compliant about card size was purely aesthetic. Those of us who use decks want a deck that is easy to use, and that makes perfect sense. I just think that the way decks are currently sized now is a profit margin and mass appeal thing. Again, I don't know how it works with decks, but the big publishers with books...as frustrating as it is to try and get something pushed through that challenges the norms, most of the constraints placed on creators aren't at all arbitrary. There's almost always reasons, and those reasons are almost always about what method has proven to move the most product.

I'm a woman and I don't have large hands, but I can juuust about shuffle the Thoth and the Place Vampire Tarot. The Dali was too long for me to comfortably/consistently shuffle, but after working at it for a while, I can do it. It's just not as fun as shuffling the Thoth (which I would love to have trimmed! but I'm too sacred to do it myself) or as effortless as shuffling other decks. And while I don't need them, vision wise, I love a good big ol' chunky deck. I think Gregory is probably making the sanest point possible, which is: we have such different tastes that we're difficult to satisfy as a group.

Do you have any Fournier decks you like? The ones I have run a little smaller and I love them as travel decks.

@Laura Borealis: I didn't know that about Marie White! Having to trim your *own* deck after it gets published seems so distressing to me. I don't have it, but the Mary-el looks lovely in pictures when it's trimmed. It really pops.

gregory said:

I have only EVER trimmed two decks - one was the Thoth, to see the geometry, and the other was that appalling Pink, where the bottom of the cards was taken up with an artist's business card.

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Oh, wow. I immediately want and desire it, uncut. That sounds tacky and dreadful - I love it!