I actually don't believe tarot works anymore

It depends on the reader, not the cards.

I agree, though, it's best not to control a river.

To my mind, both tarot and the so-called "law of attraction" (i.e. being positive and determined)*** (see below!) work because they both demand the same thing of you: Focus. Without proper focus, nothing advantageous comes, except perhaps by random cosmic "happy accident".

So, focus. Pay attention. Speak your truth clearly. Say what you see. And then, it all works properly.

The most important tool in your toolkit is, first and foremost, yourself, and your focused intention. Without that battery functioning at peak charge, nothing else works very well, either. Imo.

***(ETA not the modern "easy way" one, but the real attempt to create one's own life with one's thoughts. Not talking about millions of $ or fancy houses here. Talking about quality of life with achievements that are desired).

(must add - loved so many of the responses here - like Danieljuk's, Barleywine's, Scorpiogirl's Brighteyes's, Nemia's...all well thought out and well said!)

(and...especially Brighteye's. Well done! Say what you see is maybe the best way to read, as far as I know!)

I can't say fairly that the Law of Attraction doesn't "work;" it's really an old idea with a fresh coat of paint. I chased down its antecedants one time, and it seems to have it's roots in Phineas Quimby's New Thought movement of the late 19th - early 20th centuries, and it's premise that "our mental states are carried forward into manifestation and become our experience in daily living." This isn't all that different from what the Buddhist doctrine teaches about the self-realizing capabilities of the "heart."

What I do object to is the overly fluffy video marketing campaign that jazzes up the principles, making them "sexy" in order to reap a bunch of money from the naive for a new crop of entrepreneurs/hucksters. I personally accept that our mental conditioning has much to do with the personal reality we experience in life, I just can't buy the "just add water and stir" version of instant gratification shown in the videos. I feel pretty much the same about the use of tarot for blind "affirmation" instead of the much more complex and self-motivating "empowerment."

Barleywine said:

What I do object to is the overly fluffy video marketing campaign that jazzes up the principles, making them "sexy" in order to reap a bunch of money from the naive for a new crop of entrepreneurs/hucksters. I personally accept that our mental conditioning has much to do with the personal reality we experience in life, I just can't buy the "just add water and stir" version of instant gratification shown in the videos. I feel pretty much the same about the use of tarot for blind "affirmation" instead of the much more complex and self-motivating "empowerment."

Click to expand...

Hear, hear!

This.

It takes a commitment to the self and a commitment to focusing, and being present in the here and now. 'Add water and stir' (great metaphor btw) doesn't apply or work well to and with these things.

I'm in the same boat. Although I haven't been using Tarot as long as you have, it's been almost three years and I can't say I've found what I was looking for. I never believed in fortune telling but I was hoping Tarot would be useful as a psychological game to free up the unconscious, like sandplay is supposed to do. Maybe a skilled Jungian therapist would be able to use Tarot in this way but I don't seem able to do it by myself. However, as you said it's an interesting hobby so I'll probably still work with it from time to time.

I'm one of those odd ducks who really likes to study. I also like art, pretty much in all forms. And I find things that aren't provable vastly more interesting than those things that are. During my initial go at college after having a course in religious studies I decided that would be really fun to minor in. And I like philosophy and sociology....

Tarot is ultimately a never ending course combining things I enjoy, where the teacher can be anyone, anywhere. It can be used in a number of ways for a variety of purposes...

And yes, Mileage may vary.

Does it "work"? When I need it to, but not just when I want it to (although sometimes it does that too)

i just want to say how much i appreciate how intelligent, thoughtful, educated and articulate this discussion is, like so many other discussions here at AT. what a pleasure to be part of this forum.

Barleywine said:

I can't say fairly that the Law of Attraction doesn't "work;" it's really an old idea with a fresh coat of paint. I chased down its antecedants one time, and it seems to have it's roots in Phineas Quimby's New Thought movement of the late 19th - early 20th centuries, and it's premise that "our mental states are carried forward into manifestation and become our experience in daily living." This isn't all that different from what the Buddhist doctrine teaches about the self-realizing capabilities of the "heart."

What I do object to is the overly fluffy video marketing campaign that jazzes up the principles, making them "sexy" in order to reap a bunch of money from the naive for a new crop of entrepreneurs/hucksters. I personally accept that our mental conditioning has much to do with the personal reality we experience in life, I just can't buy the "just add water and stir" version of instant gratification shown in the videos. I feel pretty much the same about the use of tarot for blind "affirmation" instead of the much more complex and self-motivating "empowerment."

Click to expand...

This is how I feel about it, as it's presented it's highly misleading, like a magic genie in a bottle kind of thing. Just stand outside a shop and expect someone to give you a handbag, oh please! But I do have one of the original works on the subject called the Power Of The Subconscious Mind which was written and first published around the turn of the century and still in print today. It is actually a very good book on the subject and completely realistic and useful. As it is presented there I have no objection to it at all. A lot of what I'm throwing out is the highly marketed new guru stuff which is older stuff dressed up in self serving manner and marketed to make it seem like everyone should be millionaires driving BMWs because you know the universe is unlimited....yay!

In that kind of way it's quite nauseating.

Going back to the topic, I actually don't think belief is necessary for Tarot. I myself never had any belief in it to lose, and I've been reading cards almost my entire life. I just go by the premise that the deck is a symbolic map in which anything that can happen is shown. When I do a reading it is never wrong because one works in probabilities, and this helps plan ahead. Whether it is "right" or "wrong" is beside the point.

I mean, I've written a post before on how I think tarot works and pretty clearly nailed myself as a fairly annoying skeptical upstart who thinks they know everything, but here's my two cents again-

I agree that belief isn't necessary- after all, I don't believe in Tarot-with-a-capital-letter-and-spiritual-significance-let-the-cards-guide-you myself. I just believe in advice, in counselling, and in the profound psychological benefits that occur from being forced to deeply consider your problem.

Because when you do a tarot reading for yourself, or when you get one done from someone else, then regardless of what the cards say, you've basically committed yourself to spending so much time deeply thinking about the problem you consulted the cards /for/. And regardless of what the cards say, or how your reader interprets them, that thinking or discussing or whatever is going to help you.

So like so many people have already said in this thread, tarot is a tool. I hesitate to compare it to therapy or counseling, but it is kind of like that. Like journaling, or like meditation, or like so many other beneficial things, it makes you confront your problems, and it does this by making you confront an array of random symbols and meanings that you must interpret to fit your problem.

I'm just going to use an example here: if someone asks me, 'does he really love me'- then yes, I interpret the cards for them. But I keep in mind: they really wondered about this question. They were willing to ask a tarot reader for confirmation about this question. So what I can do is /not/ be like, "oh, it'll be fine, there's lots of positive emotion here', but instead really /talk/ with them about possible interpretations, get at their fears, get /why/ they were so concerned about this, make them really think about their relationship with this guy- while interpreting the cards.

And I think that helps them, because they may come to a tarot reader because they want an easy answer to their question- "yes, he loves you!" But what they need is to think really hard about this guy. Why does it matter that he loves them? Why is that in doubt? And when they think about that, long and hard, that is what will help them with their relationship. And I can make them think about it by reading cards for them.

So it's not really that tarot "works" or "doesn't work". Does it perfectly, accurately, capture other people's feelings and thoughts and your own feelings and thoughts and predict what is likely to happen? No. But does it make you think about your problems and your internal monologue and help you decide on what you should change or do? Yes. And of course many other things could make you do that, too. Tarot is one of them.