I actually don't believe tarot works anymore

I think the error is thinking the tarot can do more than it can.... ie speak on behalf of others and tell the future. But I haven't ever conducted a rigorous study on it to make those claims so am happy to change my view if others have.

If I'm asking 'does X love me?' The chances are he doesn't otherwise I wouldn't need to ask the question. If I'm asking about success in a job following an interview, again, unless I know deep down due to body language, comments etc I picked up from the interviewer but they are deep in my awareness, then there's no point in asking. I do believe the tarot only answers the things that I know but cannot access.

What does Benedict Cumberbatch's Sherlock call it? Mind Palace maybe? I think tarot is a method of accessing your memories/awareness/knowledge within your psyche or Mind Palace. So if I didn't see, hear, smell, taste, feel, perceive or sense in any other way, the information about X's love or the interviewer's view then tarot can't and won't help.


When the sky is cloudy you come along with your pretty little song

Barleywine said:

I've been going through a demonstration of the relevance of divination in the last couple of days. I mentioned above the CC I did for my daughter's situation. A while back I gave her a copy of the Gilded Reverie Lenormand and Rana George's book; last night she did her own Grand Tableau and sent it to me for comment. It corroborated - in much greater detail - the testimony of the CC. That first-hand experience is all the proof I need that there's something at work behind the veil here that cartomancy can tap into. "How" it works is open to debate, but I have no doubt something "real" is going on with it.

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This is just how I feel....and happy to have it corroborated. Thanks. I don't feel I need an explanation of "why" and "how" it works....there are some things we simply can never know for sure because there is more than just one reality at work. I am satisfied with that and continue to be amazed by the magic in the world.

Reading through this thread really makes me proud to be a part of such an intellectual, philosophical community! I recently started a similar thread on this topic, and I go back and forth as to why tarot or other types of intuition "work." As Absynthe mentioned, I think it's true that sometimes tarot cards can actually get in the way of our intuition as opposed to aiding it. For example, I have rarely been able to foretell the future using the cards, probably because the future isn't set in stone. A friend once told me that she steers clear of tarot because she believes it changes the future. I agree with her in theory, but I think it's because when you tap into your subconscious you can better see the outcomes of various courses of action (or inaction) and then modify your decisions accordingly.

At the same time, I do think it's possible to *know* things we have no way of rationally knowing, but in my experience it's usually things that have already happened that we haven't yet confirmed. For example, last year I had a dream that my friend was pregnant, and I sent her a message about it and she said, "no, no, no." Then later when they announced she said the truth was they found out the day before I sent the message, but it was too early to make the announcement. Another time, I was visiting my hometown and looking for my friend. His mother told me he and a friend went to a restaurant, and without any other information, I just *knew* where they were and dropped in and surprised them. And boy were they surprised! There were many restaurants in that town and no special history with that place, so how did I *guess* the right one? Easy. I didn't guess. They were already there or on their way there, and therefore, that information was accessible to me somehow. How? Your guess is as good as mine! I could bore you all day with other examples, but I'm sure there's a healthy contingent of people on this message board who know exactly what I'm talking about.

As for being able to see *anything* you want in the cards, I think this is true, too. For me, the most important factor for accurate readings is a willingness to be brutally honest. This is a constant battle because, of course, I would rather see rosy outcomes and view everything as the workings of some greater "destiny" with oh-so-important *ME* at the center, but really this is just ego. Reality is a lot more mundane than that, and it's only ego that makes us believe the universe ("God," whatever) takes a special interest in our daily lives. That simply cannot be true.

Anyway, to each his/her own. Personally, I'm far too much in love with the beautiful archetypal symbolism and fantastic artwork to ever give up tarot. Regardless of how it works, I find it personally enriching and have learned so much about myself in the process.

Cheers, Absynthe! I hope you find what you're looking for, but at the same time, I hope you'll reconsider leaving the group entirely. I think your interpretations are valuable regardless of whether or not it's possible for them to be 100% accurate.

Following on from Sztar's post above..... have you ever sat at traffic lights, or alone by a window in a cafe and observed someone? And within seconds they turn and look directly at you passed everyone else in the traffic queue or on the street. I cannot name that sense we all have, not just an awareness that someone is looking at us, but the exact someone in the crowd who is looking at us.... these are the energies I believe tarot connects with in order to access the known information within us.

When the sky is cloudy you come along with your pretty little song

AprilShowers said:

Following on from Sztar's post above..... have you ever sat at traffic lights, or alone by a window in a cafe and observed someone? And within seconds they turn and look directly at you passed everyone else in the traffic queue or on the street. I cannot name that sense we all have, not just an awareness that someone is looking at us, but the exact someone in the crowd who is looking at us.... these are the energies I believe tarot connects with in order to access the known information within us.

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Yes, this is *exactly* what I believe. I think it's related to the way we evolved somehow as a species. I think the ability to know not only that we're being watched but to know exactly *where* that gaze originates is related to our ability to detect and escape predators. It's one of the reasons we survived as a species.

I've really enjoyed this conversation. Thanks everyone. My formal education has been mostly in the realm of science and health care. I've always loved science even as a child, yet also from childhood have had a keen interest in the unseen, metaphysical, but have never really been able to channel this interest into anything 'tangible.' Tarot somehow brings to the forefront these niggling, vague thoughts I've carried with me and focuses them. I don't know how to explain it better. I'm not interested in fortune telling per se-- I don't really need tarot as a decision making tool, its more meditative and focusing for me. It helps me to understand myself more fully. I still remember the first Celtic Cross spread I ever did for myself--it was just an open reading, but I felt such a quiet knowing inside, a comfort or confirmation that gently said in a non-vocal voice: 'of course, were you expecting something different?' I am naturally, a skeptic at heart, but tarot tells me that the cosmic is within us and its real. I believe we evolved to be aware of these things. Why else does a sunset or a beautiful chord change in music move us so much--what evolutionary, survival advantage do these things have other than that they provide a glimpse of something that's there and its important, but we can't ordinarily see it?

I really dislike New Age blather, but there is some truth in there somewhere.

Barleywine said:

I've been going through a demonstration of the relevance of divination in the last couple of days. I mentioned above the CC I did for my daughter's situation. A while back I gave her a copy of the Gilded Reverie Lenormand and Rana George's book; last night she did her own Grand Tableau and sent it to me for comment. It corroborated - in much greater detail - the testimony of the CC. That first-hand experience is all the proof I need that there's something at work behind the veil here that cartomancy can tap into. "How" it works is open to debate, but I have no doubt something "real" is going on with it.

Click to expand...

I agree. Crowley says that there are many things in life we take for granted, but don't know what they are and how they work in his Astrological writings (edited by Kenneth Grant), and gives examples of gravity and electricity.

I too, don't know how tarot works, but it seems work for me. I believe it is the subconsciouness which operates behind. But then we are not supposed to know about the subconsciousness, because if we know about it, then it wouldn't be subconsciousness any longer.

It's funny because I'm one of those people that used to not believe in tarot (the fortune telling aspect), and I still say I don't use it primarly for seeing into the future, and often I get surprised at how it still manages to show me the future lol. Sometimes it's very clear and "wow!", other times it's in a more vague way.

So I've been surprised at how tarot has turned out to work in my life... I do still believe it's best used in a psychological-tool-manner, but I can't deny the things I've personally seen with tarot regarding looking into the future. But yeah, tarot is not and will never be an exact science. Then again, I'm not looking for a tool that is 100% scientific because I do love tarot just the way it is...

One thing we might learn from science is to not keep doing what does not work. If it doesn't work to foretell the future, and you want to do that, there are two ways to go as I see it. 1. Give away/sell your decks and stop using it since it doesn't give you what you want. 2. Try a different method of reading the cards, maybe even a whole different system like lenormand or something.

Really loving the posts here... Very interesting.

foolMoon said:

I agree. Crowley says that there are many things in life we take for granted, but don't know what they are and how they work in his Astrological writings (edited by Kenneth Grant), and gives examples of gravity and electricity.

I too, don't know how tarot works, but it seems work for me. I believe it is the subconsciouness which operates behind. But then we are not supposed to know about the subconsciousness, because if we know about it, then it wouldn't be subconsciousness any longer.

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I also postulate that it's the subconscious at work. It would seem to come under the umbrella of psychological mentalism (not the "stage magic" performing art), which focuses on the subjects of cognition and cognitive processes. I know I've talked a lot about "sunconscious induction" and causal vs. accidental involvement with the the cards, but in the end it seems to be primarily a mystical experience roughly paralleling Crowley's Equinox sub-title "The Method of Science; the Aim of Religion". The reader's challenge is to translate that non-verbal perception into intelligible and practical terms, either for self-understanding or to provide insights to the querent. I sometimes think of it as "explaining yourself to yourself" in an allusive and impressionistic way. But I do find astrology much more useful for psychological profiling.

I have not logged in here for ages. But just dropping by to say I like this thread