reconsidering a cathar connection

Tarot and neo-catharisme?

by BOUGEAREL Alain

Les Tarots ont-ils un lien avec le courant cathare ou néo-cathare voire avec des évangélistes franciscains radicaux ou apocalyptiques de la pré-Renaissance italienne?
…Aucune évidence historique – d’autant que les Cathares sont iconoclastres, n’est-ce pas?
Toutefois :
- comme je l’ai souligné dans le passé, les Tarots naissent bien dans un contexte culturel des cours lombardes où les courants néo-cathares sont puissants ;
- si l’on admet la possibilté d’une représentation d’un personnage réel sur les cartes des Tarots de la famille Visconti, alors la carte de la la Papesse – symboliquement la Foi chrétienne- – pourrait bien représenter l’ hérétique Soeur Manfreda Visconti brûlée par l’Inquisition.

La thèse initiée par l’historienne Moakley , suivie en cela par moi-même dans mon essai “Origines et histoire du tarot” , analysée puis réfutée par le chercheur O’Neill, suivi en cela par mon éminent confrère Ross Caldwell, m’apparaît de nouveau d’actualité de par les découvertes de Newmann reprise par Mary Greer :

”
Barbara Newman (aka Mona Alice Jean Newman) presented the most complete account in English of the Guglielmites in her From Virile Woman to WomanChrist: Studies in Medieval Religion and Literature, but it is in her more recent paper, “The Heretic Saint: Guglielma of Bohemia, Milan and Brunate,”
that we learn important details that make an attribution to Maifreda as
Papess much stronger than previously thought (all quotes and
information not otherwise attributed are from this article).”

http://marygreer.wordpress.com/2009/11/07/papess-maifreda-visconti-of-the-guglielmites—new-evidence/

NOTA
A propos de :
Tarots et néo-catharisme :
http://www.officieldelavoyance.org/spip.php?article608

Alain Bougearel A propos de :
La Papesse et Soeur Manfreda Visconti di Pirovano :
http://www.officieldelavoyance.org/spip.php?article877

October 14, 2010 at 4:45 am
BOUGEAREL Alain

See also :

http://www.facebook.com/editnotes.php?import#!/note.php?note_id=155516041155663&id=100001498838632

Michael Hurst, il y a quelque temps déjà sur TarotL publiait la note suivante :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Tarot L/message/50849

Même si comme le Dr O’Neill l’a démontré, les Umiliati ne portaient pas de robe brune, l’historien Jess Karlin attire l’ attention de son collègue Michael Hurst sur un article de Newman daté du 1er mards 2005 qui stipule que les fidèles de Guglielma portaient une robe brune à son image : qui plus est, la ceinture était nouée de Trois Neuds trinitaires specifiques de la Papesse.
Ceci ré-ouvrait déjà le débat...

Alain Bougearel

Nota bene
La thèse remise en question par l'étude de Newmann en 2005 était celle du
le Dr Bob O’Neill qui publia une étude spécifique de l’habit des Umiliati et des Clarisses franciscaines où il apparaissait désormais que l’hypothèse de Moakley établissant une identité entre Soeur Manfreda (de l’Ordre des Umiliati) avec la Papesse du Tarot Visconti-Sforza devait être remise en question.
L’habit porté par la Papesse du Visconti Sforza serait, selon O'neill, indéniablement un habit franciscain ...
Or il s'avère que, selon Nezwmann, les fidèles de Guglielma portaient une robe brune à son image : qui plus est, la ceinture était nouée de Trois Neuds trinitaires specifiques de la Papesse.

Thank you for these postings. Although I am still trying to go through the translation, I appreciate the link to Mary Greer's article on Maifreda, which seems to show a connection betwee the Viscontis of the 15th century and the Cathars, via their connection to Guglielma 150 years earlier. I also appreciate references to Anne Brenon's books. Unfortunately, her information doesn't seem to available to me in English.

I put the first part of post 1 by Namadev in an online translator:

"Do the Tarots have a link with the current cathare or neo cathare indeed with radical Franciscan evangelists or apocalyptic of the Italian pré-Renaissance? …No historic evidence – of as much as the Cathares are iconoclastres, is this step? Nevertheless: - As I underlined it in the past, the Tarots are born well in a cultural context of the Lombard courses where the currents neo cathares are powerful; - if one admits the possibilté of a representation of a real personage on the cards of the Tarots of the family Visconti, then the card of the the Papesse – symbolically Christian Faith- – could well represent the heretical Sister Manfreda Visconti burnt by the Inquiry.

The thesis initiated by the historian Moakley, followed in that by myself in my essay "Origins and history of the tarot", analyzed then refuted by the researcher O’Neill, followed in that by my eminent colleague beat up Caldwell, appears me again current by the discoveries of Newmann resumed by Mary Greer: "

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Luckily it returned all the text (some translators don't), but it's not too clear......
Namadev, it would be helpful if you were to post an english translation



Bee

If The Popess represents sister Maifreda of the Viscontis, it opens up the question: Why would the creators of the tarot introduce a heretical image on a single card in the midst of a supposedly otherwise "orthodox" system?

It also helps to address the time element involved between the events of earlier heretical events and the creation of the tarot. In this case, the death of Maifreda, burnt at the stake in 1300, is memorialized about 150 years later.

The Popess could just as easily have represented Faith or Holy Mother Church or the Papacy (statue at St. Peter's, Rome], of which the images below are just four of many examples:



[Thanks to members of aeclectic & the history forum for coming up with these images over the years.]

Also, there was a major resurgence in interest in Guglielma (and therefore Maifreda) at just this time through:

1) a hagiography (saint’s life) of Guglielma by Antonio Bonfadini of Ferrara, which became popular in 1425 (to be turned into a well-known religious play in Florence by Antonia Pulci before the end of the century),

2) the patronage by Bianca Maria Visconti and Francesco Sforza of Maddalena Albrizzi, Abbess of monasteries in Como and in Brunate (just North of Milan), where, around 1450, a series of frescos were painted that celebrated the life of Guglielma (one of which still remains).

Since the first tarot deck probably appeared roughly around 1440, it makes the association to Maifreda (a relative of Bianca Maria Visconti) all the more possible—especially since she could be passed off as an image of Faith or the Holy Mother Church. This doesn't require a resurgence in the heresy but rather an attempt to honor this connection among those who believed that Guglielma was a saint.

Of course The Popess could also represent Faith, or any of the other traditional ways the images was portrayed. This argument can be used against any and all other interpretations of the card. However, the fact is that the virtues and other traditional symbols were also commonly used to represent historical individuals. For example, the emperor in Italian trionfi was often presented as the ruler or a city or town in which the procession was being held. It was meant that everyone in that town would recognize him as such. In other cities, the same emperor trionfi could be made to honor the head of that place.

In The Popess, some people have suggested an association with Maifreda because of things like her brown tunic, which resembles those worn by the Umiliati. Personally, I think that the presence of a female “popess” included in a set of cards along with another one called “The Pope” has a distinct possibility of being, if not blatantly heretical, at least anti-papal in its symbolism.

So, I guess the use of the image in The Popess could be just another symbolic representation of Faith or the Church, or it could be a representation of an important historical figure like Maifreda, who, to the Visconti,, could easily be a model figure of their clearly anti-papal attitudes. The possibilities are equally valid, are they not?

foolish said:

the fact is that the virtues and other traditional symbols were also commonly used to represent historical individuals. For example, the emperor in Italian trionfi was often presented as the ruler or a city or town in which the procession was being held. It was meant that everyone in that town would recognize him as such. In other cities, the same emperor trionfi could be made to honor the head of that place.

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Could you give us some specific examples of the historical individuals who were commonly represented by Strength, Justice and Temperance in Northern Italy in the 15th century?

What do you mean by the "emperor trionfi" that was "made to honor the head of that place"? Do you mean that in 15th century Northern Italy any ruler who rode in a triumphal chariot in a procession was automatically called and recognized as an Emperor? Was Emperor a common name for a city ruler?

Google Translate said:

The Tarot Is there a link with the current neo-Cathar Cathar, or even with evangelicals or radical Franciscan apocalyptic pre-Renaissance Italian?
... No historical evidence - especially as the Cathars are iconoclastres, is not it?
However:
- as I said in the past, Tarots are born in a cultural context courses Lombard where currents are strong neo-Cathars;
- if we admit the Possibility of a representation of a real person on the Tarot cards of the Visconti family, then the map of the High Priestess - symbolically Faith Christian - may represent the heretical Sister Manfreda Visconti burned by the Inquisition.

The thesis initiated by historian Moakley, followed in this by myself in my essay "Origins and History of Tarot", and then analyzed by the researcher rebutted O'Neill followed in this by my distinguished colleague Ross Caldwell, seems again by news of discoveries by Mary Greer Newmann recovery:

Click to expand...

Jumping back a few posts I hope this is a better translation (it makes more sense to me), and at least Ross isn't translated as 'beat up Caldwell'

Rosanne said:

2. Cathars did not believe in the resurrection of the Body- what do you make of the Judgement card?


~Rosanne

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This belief is false and belongs to the propagand anti-cathari

The belief in Re-incarnation and the belief in Resurrection was specific of their cristian faith.

Dans un de lmeurs livres sacrés , l "Interrogatio Johannis" il écrit textuellement :

« Et Jean interrogea le Seigneur sur le jour du Jugement :
...

Et le Seigneur ordonnera à son ange de sonner de la trompette. La voix de l’Archange dans la trompette sera entendue depuis le ciel jusqu’aux enfers... et alors le Soleil s’obscurcira et la Lune ne donnera plus de lumière : les étoiles tomberont ...
...
Alors apparaîtra le Signe du Fils de l’Homme et avec lui les Saints Anges et Il placera son siège sur les nuées et Il siégera sur le Trône de Sa Majesté avec les 12 Apôtres assis sur les 12 sièges de sa Gloire.
Et les livres seront ouverts et Il jugera tout l’univers selon la foi qu’Il a prêchée...
...
Le fils de l’homme retirera les Élus du milieu des non-croyants et Il leur dira : Venez vous qui êtes les bénis de mon Père ; possédez le royaume qui a été préparé pour vous depuis l’organisation du monde.
...

Lors de la Séparation Ultime] les âmes (spiritus) sortiront de la prison [des corps : tuniques corporelles] et aussi ma voix sera entendue et il n’y aura plus qu’un seul bercail et un seul pasteur"


...

"C’est là le "secret" (arcanum) des hérétiques de Concorrezo apporté de Bulgarie à Nazaire, leur évêque..." commente l’Inquisiteur de Carcassonne. »