Gonna learn Thoth if it kills me - Minors

Would I be correct in assuming that AC based the astrology he used on GD models, or was he using medieval astrology.. the kind where there are the 7 planets etc? I am barely aware on the edge of my brain that there are a number of types of astrology...Vedic, Chinese, Mayan...I hope I am not dragging this thread too adrift, but I can't imagine how we could work though the Thoth minors without including astrological discussion.

Today I will be checking out the 3 of wands.. Virtue:always a good way to be.

Well, actually GD astrology IS for all intents and purposes medieval/Renaissance "7 planet" astrology, because much of it comes from Barrett's Magus which is plagiarized Agrippa. Actually, for our purposes classical astrology is weirdly coherent and unified across Europe, North Africa, and South Asia until Theosophy lobotomizes it in the late 19th century.

The trouble is, the historical scholarship available to the GD at the time on astrology was sketchy. I'm convinced (though it's only my opinion) that this is the reason so much to the focus is on QBLH (Thanks, M. Levi!) & Enochia (Thanks, Mr. Casaubon!) in later GD-based writers. Having said that, at least one member, William Peck, was a sometime astrologer and Astronomer Royal of Scotland. His charts served Mathers as a source in a couple order papers, though nothing too central. Mathers' use of astrology was often muddled a bit, and absolutely relied on texts he had available to him.

For your purposes, the thing to keep in mind is that the GD material, howver you want to characterize its sources, is based on some very old esoteric material... and the astrology contained therein, is old-fashioned, Ptolemaic, 7-planet, pre-Alan-Leo predicitive astrology. What Frawley calls The Real Astrology. Just give all that modern sunsign stuff a skip; it's not gonna help much and will confuse you a lot. Took me forever to figure out why I couldn't make heads or tails of the GD astrological material, and then I stumbled onto a copy of the Tetrabiblos and Lilly's Christian Astrology... Did my head in, in the best possible way.

A good thing for you to look into as your looking at the Decans: essential dignity. See if you can get a feel for which planets like to be where, and why. A lot of the Decans reflect a complex interrelationship of dignity and detriment. Then maybe take a look at the attributions of the planets. Warnock's Renaissance astrology site has tons of info colated here: http://www.renaissanceastrology.com/planets.html

And keep repeating to yourself: the planets are the juice, the house is the serving, the zodiac is just the bottle.

Also a great page on Al-Biruni on the planets here: http://www.renaissanceastrology.com/albiruniplanetshumanacts.html

I went off to Amazon and came up with Essential Dignities by J Lee Lehman.

I will add that to my tower of Thoth

4W Completion

Venus in Aries. Chesed in the suit of Fire (per AC) This would speak to me of a passion to act or live rightly. I love the warm earthy color of the card. Coming from a RWS background as it were, I would have no problem translating that stable loving card energy to this Thoth version

4w

I have been reading a bit of the fixed astrology associations.. I should have this down by the next century but thought I would go out on a limb here and begin trying to post what I am trying to understand.

Venus in Aries would not be totally comfortable since Aries is a cardinal sign.. this being a small number, and Venus likes perfection. Not totally uncomfortable but more like a bit of a stopping point. Since Venus rules Libra, which is opposite Aries, I would think it was more of a compromised point than a total success.

OY. This is gonna be harder than I thought.

Nicky

Actually, Venus is in detriment in Aries. According to Frawley, detriment "speaks badly of whatever is signified by the planet, in a way determined by the context." So in this case, Venus has none of her moist, connective qualities. Lilly says “A Planet in his Detriment is like a person cast out of all his Estate without hopes of Recovery….” So this is Venus devoid of luxury or festive impulses, more like Venus on the lam or Venus in (hot/dry) chains being sold into marriage to a boor.

In that context, the "Completion" is that of a "party girl" made into a "dutiful wife" against her will. Patriarchy uber alles. Funny to think of this as the "Marriage" card from the GD meanings (think of the chuppah in the RWS image!)... but the positive spin is coming directly from the Decan description itself. As Agrippa puts it: "This image bestoweth wit, meekness, joy and beauty." Interesting to note that the Decan itself is distinct from the essential dignity interp indicated by "Planet in Sign"... The Decan itself has a vaguely positive character, even if the dignity suggests otherwise.

Maybe the Lord of Completion is an end to childish, indulgent things... a completion with a certain sacrifice behind it. As Crowley says in Book of Thoth: "one cannot establish one's work without tact and gentleness." Maybe this is the lovin support beghind the "great ruler" that we're always hearing about. The loving gears that keep the clock turning.

On a weird side note, for some reason EVERY ancient astrologer has insanely negative things to say about this slice of Aries. I'm still not entirely sure why, but I'm trying to suss it out.

Is that any kind of help?

Scion said:

Is that any kind of help?

Click to expand...

YES! That is exactly what I am trying to get into my head.. not knowing whit about astrology it is primarily my purpose in getting familiar with this deck. I don't know at this point if ultimately it will be my reading deck but it will add tons of information to the cards. I am waiting for more astrology books to arrive.
I am considering laying the cards out along a wheel so as to better get a sense of the whole scheme.

Thanks!

colorful graphic/illustrations? story lines?

Has anyone made a chart of the zodiac with its decans that could make the concepts pop? Similar to what Melanchollic does for the TdM?

It would be really cool if it was interactive. I'd love to be able to drag a symbol/glyph for a planet to the inquired upon position and have the color change to indicate the "feel" of the dignity.

Or maybe a little short-story vignette about how the "person" feels being put through the "situation"?

backing up a bit

2W - Mars in Aries - rules
3W - Sun in Aries - exalted


Ok so what is the difference between rulership and being exalted in a sign. I don't mean the technical difference, but what is the shade of difference. This may be why I used to have a hard time understanding the difference between these two cards when I was first starting out reading cards. The difference was so subtle to me it forced me to rely on the surrounding cards to get a real fix on the meaning.

Nicky
baby stepping along the Thoth path