What else?!

Le Fanu

Hi, Le Fanu. Thanks for your thoughts.

I realise you still haven't finished Perdurabo, but if you had to choose between that and Sutin which would it be?
Tough one, because despite what is often said about the Sutin book as being a bit dry, I actually raced through the book simply because Crowley's life is so racy! The print is big and it's just over 400 pages if I remember rightly. The pictures are shockingly poor though. But I essentialy read the book in a week, stretched out on the beach and couldn't put it down.

But - as we've said before - there's this hole where the spiritual quest should be elucidated.

Perdurabo, is denser, more difficult. Approx 500 pages (not including appendixes etc) of very small print. Much more researched but - as a result - more taxing for the reader. Like I said elsewhere, the magic in Crowley's life is woven surriptitously into the narrative and it feels so real.

I think if one were to read only one biography it would be Perdurabo, but the two together would compliment each other perfectly. But I'm no expert. :)
 

Aeon418

I think if one were to read only one biography it would be Perdurabo, but the two together would compliment each other perfectly. But I'm no expert. :)
Good answer. :D The fact that you're reading these books of for the first time with "fresh eyes" is what makes your opinion even more valuable.
 

gregory

Is this an attempt at humour? Very good. I click on the link and only get a blank white screen. :laugh:

No it is just a duff link - MDR must have copied it from the address bar while she was still posting the reading (see where it says "new thread..." ?).

Here is the thread.
 

moderndayruth

Is this an attempt at humour? Very good. I click on the link and only get a blank white screen. :laugh:

:bugeyed: :confused:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=162088

eta:
No it is just a duff link - MDR must have copied it from the address bar while she was still posting the reading (see where it says "new thread..." ?).

Here is the thread.

Thank you Greg!

I was surprised on what happened to the link!
But then.. what do you expect from a reading on A. Crowley? To disappear is the minimum, no?! :D
 

Aeon418

No it is just a duff link - MDR must have copied it from the address bar while she was still posting the reading (see where it says "new thread..." ?).
I know. ;) I just saw an opportunity for a silly joke. I can't help myself sometimes. :laugh:
 

moderndayruth

I know. ;) I just saw an opportunity for a silly joke. I can't help myself sometimes. :laugh:

:mad:

To be pardoned for the above misdeed, you have to post your thoughts on the reading!





Please. :(
 

Aeon418

Speak about "lost in translation".... :rolleyes:
Another thing that often gets lost in translation is the idea of freedom in connection with the Will. You and Flaxen have already touched on this, but at a bit of an oblique angle. The Will is not a licence to do as you please, but it is not trumped and constrained by social niceties either.

The arena of sexual ethics always seems to be the most fertile ground for this kind of discussion because we're all so familiar with it. Most of us (in Western societies) are also familiar with how our shared Judeo-Christian heritage has shaped our shared sense of normative sexual conduct. Even though many societies are opening up to different forms of sexual expression, there is still the underlying assumption that life long heterosexual monogamy is somehow morally superior to all else. In fact everything else is considered a deviation from this norm, a norm that gets God's official stamp of approval in the Bible.

Now, for the sake of argument, lets assume we have a woman who feels that monogamy is too restrictive to allow for the full expression of her Will. Instead she decides that a truer expression is to lead a promiscuous swinger lifestyle. Already she's facing problems. She has 2000+ years of tradition and social taboo stacked against her. (Judeo-Christianity is very hostile towards any kind of female sexual autonomy.) If she's open about her choice she will probably face a degree of social stigma and probably have a whole slew of derogatory insults aimed at her.

From a strict traditional point of view our hypothtical woman would probably be thought of as immoral, perverted, sick, and possibly evil/un-spiritual. From a Thelemic standpoint she has done nothing wrong. Her choice is not harming anyone, and so should be respected and accepted. Maybe to some people she is flouting a few "social niceties", but that's preferable to her pretending to be something she's not, all for the sake of respectability. Too many people already do that and end up feeling conflicted and frustrated.

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
 

Aeon418

To be pardoned for the above misdeed, you have to post your thoughts on the reading!
Hi, moderndayruth :)

I'm slightly confused by what you're trying to do with this reading. It seems a little like what happens when people try to psycho-analyse historical figures. Sometimes interesting things come up. But is the analysis correct? Who knows.

Are you trying to objectively determine what Crowley was like? Or are you exploring your own thoughts and feelings about Crowley with this reading. I would have thought the latter was a more appropriate use of Tarot.

Please don't think I'm being overly critical. I would just like to know your angle before commenting further.
 

Parzival

What Else?

I will try my best. :D

The world "wilt" in Do what thou wilt actually refers to something called the Will. The natural question is, what is the Will? The Will is almost identical to what a lot of people call the Will of God. But of course we've hit a bit of a snag here already because different religions and philosophies define God in different ways.

Personally my definition of God has nothing in common with the vindictive and angry sky father found in the Judeo-Christian-Muslim tradition. To me God is the Universe, cosmic/natural law, the Great All, the universal order, the way things are, Mystery of Mystery. On top of that I'm a little part of this Great All, and so are you. :)

But here we've hit another snag. My conscious perception of existence leads me to believe that I am a separate enity that is not connected to the Great All. There is I and everything else that is not I outside of me. This "illusory" perception of existence is a necessary and self-willed "Fall from Eden" that allows the Great All to experience itself from a unique and individual point of view.

Unfortunately this state of affairs tends to leave the individual points of consciousness feeling disconnected from the Divine Will. But within each individual there is a part that is still fully aware of it's connection to the Great All. This is the Will. Often in the Thoth forums you will see it anthropromorphised as something called the Holy Guardian Angel. The central task of a follower of Crowley's philosophy (Thelema) is to progressively get in touch with the Angel and manifest the Will, which is our purpose in life. In older traditions you conformed yourself to the Will of God by following commandments and written rules. But now there's just one. Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

I hope from that rather poor description you can see the difference between Will and petty wants, desires, and whims.

I am appreciating this thread from some distance, since I am an unrepentent combinationist who looks to myriad decks and symphonies and poems and trees for some inspiration. (I teach world literature and world religions.) But this statement really beautifully and truly gets at the distiction between Self-Will and willfulness. Emerson's "Self-Reliance" essay and Whitman"s poem "Song of Myself" are getting at the same core truth. If it's true it's true for you and me and everyone. But just how the "New Aeon" and the "Do what thou wilt" combine is the main mystery to me. Is the former the result of the latter? Thanks to Aeon418 and moderndayruth for their searching and discovering. Upward and on.