Opening of the Key Spread

Aeon418

thorhammer said:
In mainstream GD-based decks, the seated guy is the King, the Fiery part of Whatever.
Now I'm confused. Which mainstream GD-based decks are you referring to?

Any deck that has a seated figure on a throne representing Fire is not using the Golden Dawn court card symbolism.

Any deck that has a guy on a horse representing Air is not using the Golden Dawn court card symbolism.

GD system:
Guy on horse = Fire of whatever.
Guy seated in chariot = Air of whatever.

I think people who come from RWS background find this aspect of GD decks the most confusing. The RWS is, for the most part, a GD deck. But not it's court cards. Waite did not want to reveal that part of the GD system. Waite loved his secrets. :rolleyes:
 

thorhammer

Aeon418 said:
Now I'm confused. Which mainstream GD-based decks are you referring to?
Please forgive my vagueness (I'm down with a virus) - RWS, mainly, I guess. Any deck where the courts are King, Queen, Knight, Page, really.

\m/ Kat
 

Aeon418

thorhammer said:
Please forgive my vagueness (I'm down with a virus) - RWS, mainly, I guess. Any deck where the courts are King, Queen, Knight, Page, really.
You posted again just as I was editing my last post. But here it is again.

Any deck that has a seated figure on a throne representing Fire is not using the Golden Dawn court card symbolism.

Any deck that has a guy on a horse representing Air is not using the Golden Dawn court card symbolism.

GD system:
Guy on horse = Fire of whatever.
Guy seated in chariot = Air of whatever.

I think people who come from an RWS background find this aspect of GD decks the most confusing. The RWS is, for the most part, a GD deck. But not it's court cards. Waite did not want to reveal that part of the GD system. Waite loved his secrets.
 

thorhammer

Aeon418 said:
I think people who come from an RWS background find this aspect of GD decks the most confusing. The RWS is, for the most part, a GD deck. But not it's court cards. Waite did not want to reveal that part of the GD system. Waite loved his secrets.
Ah, thankyou. That really does clarify. And makes a decision for me - just not going to use this method with any deck that's not GD-based :D too many complications!

Cheers.

\m/ Kat
 

Grigori

For comparing the Thoth to the RWS, this page might be useful.
http://www.lelandra.com/tarotbook/courtcorres.htm

Waite himself says his Knights are older than his Kings. Its my opinion he's using the GD system (just hiding it behind something that looks like the Marseille :shhh:). The astrology references on the RWS courts certainly support that idea. Bull on the King/Prince of Pents, Lion on the King/Prince of Wands etc..
 

thorhammer

similia said:
Waite himself says his Knights are older than his Kings. Its my opinion he's using the GD system (just hiding it behind something that looks like the Marseille :shhh:). The astrology references on the RWS courts certainly support that idea. Bull on the King/Prince of Pents, Lion on the King/Prince of Wands etc..
That's fascinating, similia, thankyou so much for posting that! I tend to be unfortunately unwilling to consider the RWS most of the time, so secondary sources (such as yourself :D) are really important to me just now!

\m/ Kat
 

tigerlily

Ha! Double ha! I'm using the Knights=Fire, Kings=Air all the time, because it made more sense to me, without knowing anything about the GD :| (should I be ashamed?)

Now, out of curiosity, what are the Pages' and Queens' elements?
 

thorhammer

tigerlily said:
Ha! Double ha! I'm using the Knights=Fire, Kings=Air all the time, because it made more sense to me, without knowing anything about the GD :| (should I be ashamed?)

Now, out of curiosity, what are the Pages' and Queens' elements?
Queens are Water. Which leaves Pages as Earth. I have Princesses as Earth, in the Thoth, but it figures. Not that they are equivalent, to me, but the process of elimination gives us this.

Personally, I like Pages as Air, but that's a personal thing only and makes no sense in the larger scheme of things :D

\m? Kat
 

tigerlily

Ah. Here I deviate from the holy order. Pages/Princesses are Water, Queens are Earth in my custom-made system. It works for me.
 

Teheuti

similia said:
For comparing the Thoth to the RWS, this page might be useful.
http://www.lelandra.com/tarotbook/courtcorres.htm

Waite himself says his Knights are older than his Kings. Its my opinion he's using the GD system (just hiding it behind something that looks like the Marseille :shhh:). The astrology references on the RWS courts certainly support that idea. Bull on the King/Prince of Pents, Lion on the King/Prince of Wands etc..
I've studied this issue closely (see Understanding the Tarot Court) and agree with the lelandra article. It helps to remember that, according to the GD, the Prince is "Prince and Emperor." The GD made their changes because (among other things) the Knights are obviously fiery and the sedentary Kings are more mental/airy.