Crowley biographies. Just read Sutin...

Aeon418

Le Fanu said:
Do you mean, as in knowing a few of the primary qualities of - say - Aries, or the qualities of Saturn or Mars??

Yes, exactly.

Le Fanu said:
And what would Capricorn together with Jupiter actually mean?

As soon as I see Jupiter in Capricorn I'm thinking polarity. Jupiter is expansive and jovial. Capricorn (ruled by Saturn) is hard, stuborn, and restrictive. Each of them wants to go in the opposite direction.

Now get out your 2 of Disks - Change. 2 is Chokmah and root masculine movement and projection. Now we add our two opposites - Jupiter & Capricorn. Can you see how this polarity between the Jupiter and Capricorn, coupled with movement, results in alternation, cycles, revolving patterens, ups-and-downs, and Change ?

Wasn't that easy?

Anyone can do it, whether they know a lot about astrology or not.

Le Fanu said:
And then there's all the question of when something is exalted, what it rules etc etc.

I'm sure an astrology boffin is going to come along and smack me round the head, but to put it in simple terms:

When certain planets are in certain signs it brings out the best qualities in the planet. This is called Exaltation. For example Mars is exalted in Capricorn. Why? Mars is a fighter and full of energy. But drop him into heavy and restrictive Capricorn and he's really got to prove his worth. In fact the solidity of Capricorn may act like a natural channel for the fire of Mars. The result is Creativity. (See Atu XV The Devil

)

Rulership. Certain planets rule certain signs because there is a natural affinity between them. Example: Mars rules Aries. You don't have to be a genius to figure that one out, or an astrologer. :laugh:

Le Fanu said:
I'm sure all of this information could be summed up on one sheet/diagram of A4. I've not yet found it though! I'm slowly drawing up my own.

The Book of Thoth, p284.

Le Fanu

When you say it like that, it all sounds so easy. I find that I tend to just take Crowley's word for it and learn by rote, wherever I can. Even if he's wrong, as I know he sometimes is, it's the vision with which he created the deck so it's relevant for my needs! I tend to follow the logic that The Sun in Aries must be a good because the card is quite a positive one &c.

Or rather, the Sun is essentially life giving so it gives life force to a sign which is already quite forceful &c. With some cards it's easier as the qualities are more familiar. I have a sense of what Capricorn is and Mars and the Moon and the Sun, but not others. I'm getting there.

And - yes - p284 *cough*. I don't really get that diagram. I'm not sure about all the symbols but - hey - it doesn't matter. There's enough other stuff to keep me going...

But I see that the Moon is with Pisces, but it's the other squiggles. But honestly, I'll get there. I really didn't want to get bogged down with astrology again! It happens every time. Grrrr!

Now where was I? Biographies...

Barleywine

Aeon418 said:
The astrology lodged in the deck isn't astrology at all really. Things like hermetic Tarot and Qabalah pick out little bits and pieces of astrological information and use it for their own purposes.

Quite often you see people who are new to the Thoth who are under the impression that they need to learn the whole subject of astrology all because of the presence of a few astrological symbols on the minor cards. But all you really need to know are the basic characteristics of the planets and signs, and that's it. The amount of information required is really very small and can be picked up via a simple web search or in any astrology primer. There's no need to be able to draw up a horoscope or be able to interpret the significance of angles or conjunctions of planet X in sign Y. When it comes to Tarot a knowledge of the basic significance of planets and signs will take you a long way.

As an astrologer for several years before I took up tarot, I agree that the astrological symbolism in the Thoth deck doesn't run very deep, but it does seem to be carefully worked out (probably as part of the GD system it was based on, not - for the most part - by Crowley). The Thoth majors and court cards have astrological attributes as well as the minors cards but, except for the fundamental planet and sign references, much of it is what a modern practical astrologer (other than, perhaps, the horary types) would consider "bug-dust" stuff, like decans - the kind of thing you have to go back a ways to find much useful detail about in the literature (but here's a good place to start http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig2.html). These subtle "dignities" presently take a back-seat to the more immediate and pragmatic gestalt of the 10 (and counting) "planetary" energies and their relational dynamics (aspects); even the signs and houses are secondary to some degree (according to eminent modern astrologers like Rob Hand). About the only time I can think of when a broader knowledge of astrology would be valuable in tarot would be in performing the so-called astrological spreads to do life readings. Personally I would rather have a rectified natal chart and just do transit and secondary progression analysis to look at future developments, but I do intend to do more with tarot in this regard at some point because the subtleties are where I live

.

Aeon418

Le Fanu said:
When you say it like that, it all sounds so easy. I find that I tend to just take Crowley's word for it and learn by rote, wherever I can.

There's nothing wrong with that approach. If you're happy with it, stick to it.

The benefit of knowing a little bit of astrology is that it helps you understand how and why Crowley wrote what he did about the cards. Crowley's thoughts on the cards aren't arbitrary or random. There is a well defined system of astrology and qabalah behind it all. But if you're not interested in the "how & why" of the system, that's fine. Just take what Crowley has to say and run with it.

Le Fanu said:
I have a sense of what Capricorn is and Mars and the Moon and the Sun, but not others. I'm getting there.

All the Planets and Signs are attributed to one of the Major Arcana. So if you want to know Venus better try having a chat with the Empress.

Le Fanu said:
And - yes - p284 *cough*. I don't really get that diagram. I'm not sure about all the symbols but - hey - it doesn't matter. There's enough other stuff to keep me going...

All the the important stuff is tabulated on the lower chart. Find the Zodiac sign you want on the right, and read across the chart to find the Ruling Planet and the Exalted Planet. Thus on the top line we have Aries, ruled by Mars, and the Sun is exalted. Simple.

Ignore the 19 degrees bit. You don't need to know it for Tarot purposes.

Le Fanu said:
Now where was I? Biographies...

It's probably a good idea to get back on topic.

Always Wondering

Aeon418 said:
All the the important stuff is tabulated on the lower chart. Find the Zodiac sign you want on the right, and read across the chart to find the Ruling Planet and the Exalted Planet. Thus on the top line we have Aries, ruled by Mars, and the Sun is exalted. Simple. Ignore the 19 degrees bit. You don't need to know it for Tarot purposes.
It's probably a good idea to get back on topic.

But what are the numbers on the far end of the chart?

Great thread Le Fanu. I'm learning lots. I would love to read Perdurabo but am afriad it would kill my neck. I'm only up for short, light reads. Wish it came as an audio or ebook.

AW

Aeon418

Always Wondering said:
But what are the numbers on the far end of the chart?

The numbers are the exact degree within each sign that tradition says the planets are exalted. Using Aries as our example again we see that the Sun is exalted in the 19th degree of Aries. From a Tarot perspective that bit of trivia is of no great importance, other than it lies within the second decan of Aries which is attributed to the 3 of Wands.

Barleywine

Always Wondering said:
I would love to read Perdurabo but am afriad it would kill my neck. I'm only up for short, light reads. Wish it came as an audio or ebook.

Be careful what you wish for, I noticed yesterday that the audio-book version of Dances with Dragons has 38 CDs. If Perdurabo is anything approaching its 900+ pages, you'd be in for a looonng listen.

Aeon418

Barleywine said:
If Perdurabo is anything approaching its 900+ pages, you'd be in for a looonng listen.

900 pages? My copy has 705 numbered pages. The text itself runs from page 1 to page 562. The remaining page count consists of notes, references, and the index.

Ross G Caldwell

Aeon418 said:
900 pages? My copy has 705 numbered pages. The text itself runs from page 1 to page 562. The remaining page count consists of notes, references, and the index.

Only Crowley's own autobiography the Confessions runs that long - 923 pages of text in the 1969 (Hill and Wang) edition. The promised new unabridged edition should be quite a bit longer.

The longest biography must be Symonds' King of the Shadow Realm, at 580 pages of text; he slightly retouched this and published it as The Beast 666 (Pindar Press, 1997), which runs to 587 pages of text.

Aeon418

Ross G Caldwell said:
Only Crowley's own autobiography the Confessions runs that long - 923 pages of text in the 1969 (Hill and Wang) edition. The promised new unabridged edition should be quite a bit longer.

2000+ pages was the last I heard. That sounds very juicey to me.

But that page count makes you realise what a hatchet job Symonds and Grant did!

Ross, this is a little off topic, but has the OTO's Crowley copyright expired? I've started seeing lots of non-OTO sanctioned editions of Magic in Theory and Practice and The Book of the Law just lately that leads me to believe it has.