How do you interpret's Thoth's Devil in a reading?

Babylon_Jasmine

Crowley's devil is not about moderation though, it is unbridled, uncontrolled, uncensored, unfettered creativity. This can be good or bad depending on the circumstances or the position of the card. It can also represent procreation of course, usually from a male perspective.

Centaur

Babylon_Jasmine said:
Crowley's devil is not about moderation though, it is unbridled, uncontrolled, uncensored, unfettered creativity.

I agree with that. But, I think that the phallic image depicted on the card is very crucial. As I said before, I like to view the figures inside the testicles (blush!) as human impulses, desires, and cravings. The question is... can we control those cravings/desires/impulses? Or shall they 'burst forth' as such into the material world.

Aeon418

It's worth pointing out that the hebrew letter attributed to this card is, Ayin. Which means, an Eye. In one sense this is how you see things. (I'm not trying to be funny here.)
For example: if you see your natural desires and impulses as dirty and shameful they will become a prison for you and lead you right back to the traditional meanings of this card and the traditional Devil. If, on the other hand, you see that there's nothing wrong with having desires and natural impulses it becomes a source of liberation. In this case the Devil is transformed into the god PAN.

One small point that may be useful: the hebrew for "goat" and "strength" are both the same. Crowley was well aware of this.

wizzle

The Eye

Aeon418 said:
It's worth pointing out that the hebrew letter attributed to this card is, Ayin. Which means, an Eye. In one sense this is how you see things. (I'm not trying to be funny here.)
For example: if you see your natural desires and impulses as dirty and shameful they will become a prison for you and lead you right back to the traditional meanings of this card and the traditional Devil. If, on the other hand, you see that there's nothing wrong with having desires and natural impulses it becomes a source of liberation. In this case the Devil is transformed into the god PAN.

One small point that may be useful: the hebrew for "goat" and "strength" are both the same. Crowley was well aware of this.

Good point about the eye. And the hebrew letter is certainly shown graphically in the "third eye" of Mr. Goat. So not only are we dealing with ordinary, conscious "seeing" but esoteric and insightful seeing as well.

I'm assuming those rings at the top of the card are the rings around the planet Saturn, another reference to Capricorn, which is ruled by Saturn. The placement of the rings around the, ahem, upright symbol could be interpreted rather indelicately. But in all seriousness, is this ring meant to constrict or what?

I have another question.....is the goat wearing a wreath of flowers or grapes? To me they look like grapes.

prudence

wizzle said:
Good point about the eye. And the hebrew letter is certainly shown graphically in the "third eye" of Mr. Goat. So not only are we dealing with ordinary, conscious "seeing" but esoteric and insightful seeing as well.

I'm assuming those rings at the top of the card are the rings around the planet Saturn, another reference to Capricorn, which is ruled by Saturn. The placement of the rings around the, ahem, upright symbol could be interpreted rather indelicately. But in all seriousness, is this ring meant to constrict or what?
~.....ummm, wizzle, do you mean what I think you mean here?

Nevada

Among other things already mentioned, the Devil can go one of two ways--either a need to be more down to earth, or more sensual--or too much of earthiness or sensuality (depending on its dignity).

Capricorn is ruled by Saturn, which is about limitations, responsibility and Karma. Hedonism may be encouraged, but not without an understanding of the inherent responsibilities and consequences.

On the other hand, it tells the person who is so spiritual they have their head in the clouds all the time that life on earth means one must have a concern for earthly things. The lessons of this life are learned here in this body, on this earth.

Nevada

P.S. The interesting thing to me personally about this card is that because it's a Capricorn card I associate it with my dad, and he's the one who would bring me down to earth when I was daydreaming too much, when I was a child. My mom, a Pisces and an artist, taught me about dreams and imagination. My dad taught me to apply these things in practical ways.

Babylon_Jasmine

wizzle said:
I'm assuming those rings at the top of the card are the rings around the planet Saturn, another reference to Capricorn, which is ruled by Saturn. The placement of the rings around the, ahem, upright symbol could be interpreted rather indelicately. But in all seriousness, is this ring meant to constrict or what?

I think the rings are meant to stimulate. Considering this card refers to Pan, Goats, and Satan and is interpreted by Crowley it's probably usually best to intrerpret symbolism as indelicately as possible, and then infer from there.

Razordance

Hmm... This thread has helped me quite a bit with my new Thoth, I think. I did a new deck reading and the final position was 'What is the nature of our relationship?' It came up the Devil. I was trying to figure out how to interpret it, and came up with very little. It was a great help to see how Crowley's interpretation of the Devil differs from the traditional. I think someone mentioned something along the lines of 'Something which we fear, even though it's so great.' That strikes me as exactly the way a lot of society views tarot in general, and of the way that I used to view the deck itself. It took me a while to get this particular deck because, even though everyone says it's a great deck, I had somewhat of a hangup with Crowley himself, and his legend. I was a little afraid of anything associated with him. I now believe that perhaps the card was acknowledging those facts, as well as suggesting that it may bring, maybe not so much sexuality into my life, but perhaps creativity and intensity.

ravenest

Bloody Goats! Thea (a goat here that SOMEONE is supposed to be looking after) was all twisted up on his chain around the tree yesterday. I go to do a good deed, bend down to untwist the chain and what does he do?

Cracks me with both horns right on the crown of my head! Owwww! Thanks a lot!

They just can't help themselves, they cannot be what they are not. When their normal, true and natural nature is suppressed all sorts of problems arise.

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

(Aint those little squiggles in the sacks some sort of DNA pic? I seem to remember pics like that from High School biology.

TenOfSwords

The Devil represents, along with the giant fallos, the carnal/beastly urges in man... The animal side of man. Most people attribute this to something sinful, but in itself, it's beautifull!! it's the basic human (and animal obviously) urge... it's the sex drive, it's the hunger, it's the desire. It's lust on the material plane...

Crowley put a giant wand right infront of everything... symbol of expressed will, of ruling.

Love under will in the carnal sense... have your urges, but don't let them have you!

To me, that's the devil.

It reduces to 6 The Lovers btw.

How do you interpret's Thoth's Devil in a reading?

Babylon_Jasmine

Centaur

Aeon418

wizzle

prudence

Nevada

Babylon_Jasmine

Razordance

ravenest

TenOfSwords