Astrology and the Tarot

JLDulin

I don't claim to have deep occult experience (whatever that means), but I do know that Qabalah provides the link between Tarot and the cosmos. The true spiritual significance of Tarot becomes obvious when the cards are mapped onto the Qabalistic Tree of Life. This Tree is a diagram not only of the whole of reality, but also for each of the four worlds, as well as the so-called individual human being. It provides a common structure for both the macrocosm and the microcosm, consequently clarifying the 'above' and 'below' of the Emerald Tablet, as well as the 'inner' and 'outer' of the Gnostic document The Gospel of Thomas. Tarot is a gateway to the whole of reality via the Tree of Life.

An extremely important book, so obvious that I forgot to mention it, which discusses the Trumps from this esoteric perspective (without going into detail about the Tree of Life), is The Tarot by P. F. Case. Among other things, it utilizes the Cube of Space in relation to the Trumps. It is a must-have for many who are into esoteric Tarot, including me.


I hope I have not caused you to become defensive about occult experiences. I did not say that you personally claimed to have any experience. However, Hermes did. And anyone who progresses through the highest levels of certain Orders must claim to have extraordinary experiences. Otherwise, they are playing with words and ideas. If extraordinary experiences are not possible, i.e. astral travel and union with God consciousness, then I want nothing to do with it.

The book you recommend seems promising. Thanks.
 

JLDulin

What about the 22 Major arcana cards and their association with numbers? What is the origin / base of them? Would this question be better in new topic? I think it might be relevant to OP albeit somewhat in remote way.


This question is relevant enough for the thread. However, getting a straight answer about such an elusive subject is challenging.
 

Barleywine

An extremely important book, so obvious that I forgot to mention it, which discusses the Trumps from this esoteric perspective (without going into detail about the Tree of Life), is The Tarot by P. F. Case. Among other things, it utilizes the Cube of Space in relation to the Trumps. It is a must-have for many who are into esoteric Tarot, including me.

Absolutely essential, along with the BOTA course material that parcels it out in small bites for easier digestion (at much greater cost in money and time since it was - in pre-internet terminology - a bi-weekly "correspondence course" thing). I also liked The Qabalistic Tarot by Robert Wang, and A Practical Guide to Qabalistic Symbolism by Gareth Knight, in which Part 2 covers the Tarot and the Paths. There are also a couple of more "meditative" titles I got a lot out of: The Book of Tokens, also by P.F. Case, and Kabbalistic Aphorisms by James Sturzaker. Duquette's work, while certainly valuable, looks to me like "next generation" stuff. I understand the demographic he's going after, but it crossed my "palate" and didn't leave much lingering flavor behind. Sort of like Bud Lite to those who were weaned on stouts, porters and barleywines.
 

rwcarter

Moderator Note

What about the 22 Major arcana cards and their association with numbers? What is the origin / base of them? Would this question be better in new topic? I think it might be relevant to OP albeit somewhat in remote way.

This question is relevant enough for the thread. However, getting a straight answer about such an elusive subject is challenging.
The origin/basis of the association of numbers with the Major Arcana is only relevant to a thread in Tarot Books & Media so long as the discussion concerns a book or website that discusses that info. And since that's a different discussion than astrology and the tarot, such a discussion needs to occur in a new thread.

rwcarter, Moderator of Tarot Books & Media
 

JLDulin

Absolutely essential, along with the BOTA course material that parcels it out in small bites for easier digestion (at much greater cost in money and time since it was - in pre-internet terminology - a bi-weekly "correspondence course" thing). I also liked The Qabalistic Tarot by Robert Wang, and A Practical Guide to Qabalistic Symbolism by Gareth Knight, in which Part 2 covers the Tarot and the Paths. There are also a couple of more "meditative" titles I got a lot out of: The Book of Tokens, also by P.F. Case, and Kabbalistic Aphorisms by James Sturzaker. Duquette's work, while certainly valuable, looks to me like "next generation" stuff. I understand the demographic he's going after, but it crossed my "palate" and didn't leave much lingering flavor behind. Sort of like Bud Lite to those who were weaned on stouts, porters and barleywines.


Thanks.
 

Richard

I hope I have not caused you to become defensive about occult experiences. I did not say that you personally claimed to have any experience. However, Hermes did. And anyone who progresses through the highest levels of certain Orders must claim to have extraordinary experiences. Otherwise, they are playing with words and ideas. If extraordinary experiences are not possible, i.e. astral travel and union with God consciousness, then I want nothing to do with it.

The book you recommend seems promising. Thanks.

Here is another book recommendation.

I would be wary of anyone who claims to have numinous experiences, and having high degrees in an esoteric order is no guarantee that the member is spiritually enlightened. The bickering that goes on between the various Golden Dawn and Rosicrucian organizations is certainly not evidence that they have enlightened leadership. I think the best antidote to the notion that esoteric orders are necessarily a route to enlightenment is a careful and unbiased reading of The True and Invisible Rosicrucian Order by P. F. Case. Even B.O.T.A., which seems to be head and shoulders above many such organizations, cannot make any guarantees, and it is far too expensive for most people.

I'm sure you must be aware that the goal of esoteric self development is not to have numinous experiences but rather knowledge of oneself. Magic is a side effect of the quest, not a measure of the extent of one's development.
 

ravenest

I don't claim to have deep occult experience (whatever that means), but I do know that Qabalah provides the link between Tarot and the cosmos. The true spiritual significance of Tarot becomes obvious when the cards are mapped onto the Qabalistic Tree of Life. This Tree is a diagram not only of the whole of reality, but also for each of the four worlds, as well as the so-called individual human being. It provides a common structure for both the macrocosm and the microcosm, consequently clarifying the 'above' and 'below' of the Emerald Tablet, as well as the 'inner' and 'outer' of the Gnostic document The Gospel of Thomas. Tarot is a gateway to the whole of reality via the Tree of Life.

An extremely important book, so obvious that I forgot to mention it, which discusses the Trumps from this esoteric perspective (without going into detail about the Tree of Life), is The Tarot by P. F. Case. Among other things, it utilizes the Cube of Space in relation to the Trumps. It is a must-have for many who are into esoteric Tarot, including me.

Thanks for that. I was thinking on this subject last night and was going to ask you about whether P F Case might slot in here (because I am not very familiar with him and I thought you were) ... but you pre-empted it ? ? ?

Hmmm ... psychic ? 'deep occult experience' ? ? ? :)
 

ravenest

What did you mean by writing, "I would suggest getting this first ..."?

It related to your statement previous to the comment : I would suggest getting this first , that is ; "to know how the elemental associations combine with the astrological associations" and THEN, when that is down see how that relates to certain cards.

Even to fully understand how the elements relate to each other first, then one has a firmer foundation and is better equiped how the elements relate to astrology ... then the cards can be 'patched in'.
I can see what you are saying about how there is a certain arbitrary nature to the tarot system. I may find that I need to simply adopt a system and modify it as I learn more.

Thanks for the links. My PDF library is growing.

Yes that may be the case, but in many cases the original 'arbitrary nature' of many things is best modified by one who has a wide range of other things to compare and relate ones 'arbitrary' choices to. A student of eclectic religion, philosophy and mysticism (and a s many subjects as one can add ... relevant subjects that is ; history, anthropology, and life experience etc ) has a better chance IMO at 'penetrating the mysteries' than one with a narrow mind set and experience. One can say everyones opinions are right , but some base their opinions on observations outside of their own experience and on how things are regulated and work in nature.
 

ravenest

I hope I have not caused you to become defensive about occult experiences. I did not say that you personally claimed to have any experience. However, Hermes did. And anyone who progresses through the highest levels of certain Orders must claim to have extraordinary experiences. Otherwise, they are playing with words and ideas. If extraordinary experiences are not possible, i.e. astral travel and union with God consciousness, then I want nothing to do with it.

The book you recommend seems promising. Thanks.

OH they are possible alright, but in many traditions we are warned about seeking them as the focus of the journey ... Siddhis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhi

But they are great for sucking students in :)

I want power. Okay to get power you need to do this and this ... including studying the wise use of power, ethics, etc. ... eventually, you have power and ethics (insidious isnt it :) ) ... of course, all groups teachers and students dont work that way ... some will teach you things that will really **** you up ... or the student might learn all that and try it without the ethics.

My favourite story about siddhis is

The student goes to the master' "Master, yesterday in the market place I was talking to a student from Dong Chen's school, they teach people, they say, to eventually be able to walk on water!"

"Is that so."

"Yes. Is that possible?"

"Perhaps."

"Will you teach me?"

"No."

"Why not?"

"Its a waste of time, you would better spend your time learning other things."

"I think you dont know how to teach me this. Or you do know and you want to keep it for yourself. So I am leaving you and am going to find a teacher that can teach me real magical powers."

"Okay then, good luck"

The student was gone for 20 years. One day the teacher, now an old man, was sitting out the front of his hut looking over the river and he heard shouting on the other side.

"Hey teacher! Old Man! Watch this!"

Very carefully he stepped upon the water and walked over the water to the other side and up to the teacher.

"There! You old fake! I proved it! What do you think of THAT then! "

" Oh, very good." The teacher laughed.

"Why are you laughing then?" The olld student asked.

The old man pointed down stream to the ferryman punting people across the river.

"You just spent 20 years learning to do something that those people just paid a penny for."

Now ... following practices that will help you expand to your fullest potential ... thats another story. In that process things may arise.

This :

" In this book it is spoken of the Sephiroth and the Paths; of Spirits and Conjurations; of Gods, Spheres, Planes, and many other things which may or may not exist.

It is immaterial whether these exist or not. By doing certain things certain results will follow; students are most earnestly warned against attributing objective reality or philosophic validity to any of them.

3. The advantages to be gained from them are chiefly these:
("a") A widening of the horizon of the mind.
("b") An improvement of the control of the mind.

4. The student, if he attains any success in the following practices, will find himself confronted by things (ideas or {13} beings) too glorious or too dreadful to be described. It is essential that he remain the master of all that he beholds, hears or conceives; otherwise he will be the slave of illusion, and the prey of madness."

http://hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib6.html
 

ravenest

This question is relevant enough for the thread. However, getting a straight answer about such an elusive subject is challenging.

yeah but we got moved to books and media ... like I said before, difficult to answer many questions in this context. Here we are supposed to be recommending books or media.

The number question seems as LRichard described and is often talked about in history forum.