Copyright on tarot images - for an e-book

Hi everyone.

Wow. Thanks so much for all the responses and the links.

I think I will have to look into it more, since I rather be sure with this.
I do believe that when you alter images (like in collages, etc.), they cannot claim the copyright, because it's your own creative work (especially in regards to images that are and/or should be in the public domain, I'm not talking about ripping of brilliantly unique art work ) But there should be exceptions there as well. I'm sure I've read this 'somewhere' on Creative Commons.

I could imagine that it then would still be better to use images that are for sure in the public domain and/or just speak to a publisher who knows about (international) image rights, etc.
(adding that to my 'to do').

@tarotbear: correct, I did make pictures of the Albano-Waite as well.

@Sulis: thanks. I'm not that good with drawing, but maybe there's ways to work around this. I think Carol Herzer worked with the black and white deck from what I understood.

In other words: I will have to look into this a bit more

LoS are more relaxed than most about all this, if you want to contact them

Pamela A B C and D images are covered by copyright in the EU and England. This Pamela A is available here: http://www.sacredtexts.com/tarot/xr/index.htm . The B&W book images are out of copyright in the US (before 1923), but not in many other parts of the world, which may limit your sales.

Dover Books included a RWS deck in their book/CD of Tarot images. You can contact them about using one of their decks. (Go to Amazon and look up The Art of Tarot Cards CD-ROM.) Dover should be up-to-date on all copyright issues. See about getting a license from them.

Changing an image slightly does not abrogate copyright. I believe that Carol Herzer and USGames came to some kind of understanding. Also, if an image in a collage is clearly recognizable and used in a significant way it can still fall under copyright.

Teheuti said:

Changing an image slightly does not abrogate copyright ... Also, if an image in a collage is clearly recognizable and used in a significant way it can still fall under copyright.

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Thank you, Teheuti; I have an email in to USGS and am hoping to hear directly from them on this issue ...

Thank you for that information.
I'm in the EU myself, so that would indeed limit it.

I will contact Dover books. Thank you!
Otherwise I may just use other rightfree images. It's about the cards, yes. But it's more so about the writing exercises.

Direct from USGS itself ...

Hello - ATers!

I wrote directly to Copyrights & Permissions at USGS and ask (below) and they responded: (below)

****
Dear ____,

For many years you have been my 'go-to inside' contact for many questions concerning the RWS deck, and I hope you can spare a minute to answer a couple of questions, even if they may not be part of your department's jurisdiction.

As you may be aware, I am a long-time member of Aecletic.net - and any time someone comes up with a question or makes a particular statement concerning RWS copyrights everyone looks to me.

This morning someone from outside the USA posted a question wherein they stated they are working on creating an eBook and wanted to use images from the RWS and Albano-Waite but that they 'altered them' and wanted to know if 'that would be acceptable'. Many of us said that if someone is interested in using the RWS images - 'altered or not, extremely altered or not' that they need to seek advice from USGS.

So, in view of this post - could you please tell me what is USGS' stance about the use of any images that are under the USGS copyrights - in simple terms - what would be permissible and what is not?

Reply [emphasis in bold is mine] -

"John, you are correct in your assumptions and thanks for asking. All people/companies wishing to use Rider-Waite or any versions thereof, altered or unadulterated, must seek permission from US Games."

**** ETA ****
Note: I will ask for further clarification.

I would. The difference from sharing a picture with a tarot class (for education) and publishing a book with images in your book, is that you stand to make a profit from a book with their copy written images. I'm not sure if the original RWS card images are copy written. That would require legal research.

You also are talking about novelty of the image. Are the images you've reproduced novel? Are they the spitting images of a deck in circulation, currently being sold? Are they similar enough someone could say "hey, that's similar to the ... deck".

I would look at your decks and see where you took your images from or were influenced. If it's the US Games deck and you want to use the images, contact them in writing and ask if your project requires their permission and, if so, then ask for their permission to reproduce the images. If you notice on books and websites with deck images of cards, some say "printed with permission of ..." It's the safe way to go. Much cheaper than ending up with a lawsuit.

Bottom line is if you're already asking the question in your head about if it's ok, better safe than sorry and just ask their legal division. Just my non legal two cents.

Sandalwood said:

Hi,

I have written an E-book on writing with the tarot cards. It's finished, edited and basically ready to go see the world.
However, I wonder about the images of tarot cards. Can I use them? (especially the RWS). I have altered them, since I made pictures of them myself and I think when doing that I am allowed to show them, but I'm not 100% sure. Or should I just start e-mailing US Games and asking them about it and ask for permission? Better safe than sorry
Does anyone know anything about this.

Love to hear. Thank you!

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Teheuti said:

Dover Books included a RWS deck in their book/CD of Tarot images. You can contact them about using one of their decks. (Go to Amazon and look up The Art of Tarot Cards CD-ROM.) Dover should be up-to-date on all copyright issues. See about getting a license from them.

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I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOUR DOVER (CD-ROM) BOOKS ...

...but both of mine - 'Vintage Holiday Cuts' & 'Celtic Designs for Craft People'- have a VERY SPECIFIC copyright notice in them that says: "These images belong to Dover Electronic Clip Services. You may use them for graphics and crafts applications free and without special permission, provided you include no more than ten (10) in the same publication or project. For permission ...etc., etc.

HOWEVER - replication or reproduction of any illustration by any other graphic device, whether it be in a book, electronic, or any other design resource is strictly prohibited. "

I would check with www.dovertechsupport.com before I buy a copy.

tarotbear said:

I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOUR DOVER (CD-ROM) BOOKS ...

...but both of mine - 'Vintage Holiday Cuts' & 'Celtic Designs for Craft People'- have a VERY SPECIFIC copyright notice in them that says: "These images belong to Dover Electronic Clip Services. You may use them for graphics and crafts applications free and without special permission, provided you include no more than ten (10) in the same publication or project. For permission ...etc., etc.

HOWEVER - replication or reproduction of any illustration by any other graphic device, whether it be in a book, electronic, or any other design resource is strictly prohibited. "

I would check with www.dovertechsupport.com before I buy a copy.

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I have a copy of their tarot CD and it does indeed AFAIK say exactly that (I too had plans...) I'll get it out and look.

USGS Clarification

tarotbear said:

Note: I will ask for further clarification.

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According to the clarification email I got from the VP of USGS' Copyrights & Permissions Department:

"John, we give out permissions, fee-for-use, all the time. Most commercial uses involve fees. Non-commercial do not … like decoration for a website or Card of the Day on a site."

I think we have our answer.

***ETA***

Post #18 talks about Dover CD-ROM artworks, too.