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Seven of Disks

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Quote:
Originally Posted by .traveller.
Ack, those keywords bug me to no end. By labeling the card with 'failure', it becomes difficult to see the card in any other light.
Yeah at first I wasn't sure if I liked that or not. But after working with the deck for a while, I've found it really doesn't bother me after all.
Top   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest
Then see failure in a different light.
Or to quote a great jazzman who succeeded, failed and then succeeeded again, even better than the first time: "Do not fear mistakes - there are none." (Miles Davis).

I love the image of the labyrinth, ravenest. I also have trouble with this card, but you've shone a light on its darkness, and made that particular maze a little more navigable.

7 of Wands? I wouldn't say unnattainable goals - but setting yourself goals that are difficult and which will stretch you. Netzach is also Victory, after all - victory over one's limitations. In the 7 of Disks, it is the limitation of failure -perhaps self-inflicted - we must overcome. In the 7 of Wands, the limitation of one's energy, or limits put up by others. Or perhaps - we need to overcome the limitations of our ego (I tend to see Wands as fairly egotistical). But the fun lies in overcoming them, no? And the 8 shows us we do - with prudence, when we are coming out of failure, and with full-on energy, when we have overcome some obstacle to our will.
Top   #12
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Whats fascinating to me is how all these cards are directly connected, they all flow in and out of each other. A true map of the universe and reflection of the human soul. IMO
Top   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helvetica
Netzach is also Victory, after all - victory over one's limitations. In the 7 of Disks, it is the limitation of failure -perhaps self-inflicted - we must overcome. In the 7 of Wands, the limitation of one's energy, or limits put up by others.
I like what you have to say here but, for myself have a problem with the semantics of it. Netzach is on the Pillar of Mercy. It tends to be more accepting and less discriminating. Binah, Geburah and Hod are more often associated with limitation - being on the Path of Severity. So to define the 7's as limitation doesn't work for me. I prefer the term challenge. We are being challenged to find how to be victorious. What challenges the Victory of Disks (Assiah) - thereby creating the opportunity for it? I think we're getting at the same thing but I find that it helps to keep the choice of keywords congruent with as many aspects of the Tree as possible.

Now, to contradict myself, Angie Arrien calls the 7 of Disks "Fear of Failure" which opens up all kinds of possibilities. To stay more congruent and add in the psychology that says that fear of failure is more often really a fear of success, I might phrase it as "How does the 7 of Disks challenge our success? That Venus is associated with Netzach, suggests that our attraction to and desire for something material (Disks) is at the heart of the issue. At this 7th stage of a process, victory is established by dealing with our desires to have something manifest (Earth/Assiah). We are attracting (Venus) this experience as exactly the thing that is most likely to ensure Victory (Netzach) if we "get" the lesson involved and handle the situation in the best possible way.

I'd love to hear comments on the above scenario as it's just my attempt to put together some of the elements involved in a cohesive, congruent way. I don't know if it will make sense to anyone else.

Mary
Top   #14
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Ah Mary - I wasn't thinking of Netzach as limitation so much as how we may overcome the limitations that life throws up at us - Victory is always a victory over oneself, after all. It needn't be a severe victory - as you say, the Pillar of Mercy gives us understanding. Challenge works for me too in that respect. How else are we to overcome the limitations we face but through a better understanding of ourselves and others? When we fail - don't we need first to face ourselves with truth and compassion - and then to move on? That is the challenge - and a kind of Victory - very apt for Netzach.

I like the Fear of Failure idea, but the card is actually called "failure" and can and does show real failure in some readings. Some failures are self-inflicted - though not all - but then, how do we rise from them? Doesn't the real Victory consist in rising above a failure we might have caused, understanding our part in it, forgiving it, and moving on?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helvetica
Ah Mary - I wasn't thinking of Netzach as limitation so much as how we may overcome the limitations that life throws up at us
I understand what you mean but we still end up with the dilemma of "How is Failure a Victory" if it is really Netzach - for it is hard to imagine that a card connected with Taurus which is ruled by Venus would not work well in a Sephira ruled by Venus. I agree that "a better understanding of ourselves and others" is key but isn't that a key to all the cards?

Quote:
The card is actually called "failure" and can and does show real failure in some readings. Some failures are self-inflicted - though not all - but then, how do we rise from them? Doesn't the real Victory consist in rising above a failure we might have caused, understanding our part in it, forgiving it, and moving on?
Crowley called the 5 of Wands "Strife," yet he tells us in his book that it's really about "striving," so I think we can allow ourselves a little latitude. You bring up some good points and I hope others will continue but I am leaving on a trip and can't do much more right now.

Mary
Top   #16
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How does Victory (Netzach) become Failure? This point was raised by Fudugazi in a different thread, so I thought it was worth raising in the Thoth forum.

I tend to see the 7's as the first imbalanced manifestation of the 6. In this case it's the 6 of Disks - Success. In the 7 of Disks the secrect of success has been lost and it's turned into excess. Consequently this manifests as biting off more than you can chew and burning yourself out. The fire of Netzach is just too fierce on the plane of Assiah/Suit of Disks. It's almost as if the very strength and energy of Netzach turns around and bites itself. In effect it becomes it's own worst enemy.

With that in mind I think it's quite obvious why the opposite and balancing principle, the 8 of Disks, is called Prudence.
Top   #17
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Interesting discussion! I think I missed the double Venus aspect here. (7 and Taurus). I'm going to have to think about that for a bit!

I've thought about why the 7s are generally negative even though they are on the Pillar of Mercy (and even though ruled by Venus). Crowley especially has nothing nice to say about 7s: "The position is doubly unbalanced. . . . The greatest catastrophe that can befall Venus is to lose her Heavenly origin. . . . The four Sevens are not capable of bringing any comfort. Each one represents the degeneration of the element. Its utmost weakness is exposed in every case." I have heard or read somewhere about a "twist" in the tree, which would turn 7 to the Pillar of Severity. Does this make sense to anyone??!!

In the meantime, my IDS:

7 = Needs
Disks = Health and wealth
Physical needs

7 coins:

Taurus—Saturn
Saturn
Saturn—Taurus
Saturn—Taurus

The Taurus coins are outline engravings of a bull’s face, all the same. The Saturn coins are a face in profile facing left with what looks like a Greek helmet on.

The shape is the geomantic figure, Rubeus, Latin for “Red.” Some say it shows an overturned glass, and it is the most unfavorable of the 16 figures. It represents passion, deception, violence, and vice.

The coins and the leaves in the background are all gray. The coins have a bit of a reddish tinge around the outside edges. The stems of the leaves seem to arch around each coin, but the coins are laying on the leaves. Crowley says the coins are lead for Saturn, and they are bad money. And that the vegetation is spoiled. He also says the card represents total passivity. The bet has been lost and there is nothing else that can be done.

Saturn in Taurus: Fear of ruin and privations; prohibition of enjoyment. Snuffin points out that both Saturn and Taurus are slow-moving and deliberate. Saturn is severely limiting the prosperity of Taurus, and is causing the fear/worry about availability of basic needs.

In a reading: You are full of worry about meeting your basic needs. You may be experiencing financial difficulties or health concerns. You may want to think about whether you have a realistic conception of what you need as opposed to what you want. Simple living may become a necessity, but it can be a blessing in disguise, helping to live a more in-touch life.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon418 View Post
How does Victory (Netzach) become Failure? This point was raised by Fudugazi in a different thread, so I thought it was worth raising in the Thoth forum.

I tend to see the 7's as the first imbalanced manifestation of the 6. In this case it's the 6 of Disks - Success. In the 7 of Disks the secrect of success has been lost and it's turned into excess. Consequently this manifests as biting off more than you can chew and burning yourself out. The fire of Netzach is just too fierce on the plane of Assiah/Suit of Disks. It's almost as if the very strength and energy of Netzach turns around and bites itself. In effect it becomes it's own worst enemy.

With that in mind I think it's quite obvious why the opposite and balancing principle, the 8 of Disks, is called Prudence.
I pulled this card before leaving town for my son's wedding this last weekend and like ravenest says I could only assume there were going to be some challenges, most likely with family and personalities, to learn from. This was indeed the case but nothing that I felt put the finger on the seven of discs so I came home and looked this up.

I am 30 something years sober and have not closed out a party in that many years. But we did close this one and you have just perfectly described the gauntlet of people who an hour before were perfectly lovely social butterflies turned into in my face slobbering, yelling, crying and falling down all over me. It took me an hour to get out of the building and I was very much taken aback.

Lol at least it didn't mean I was going to fall on my face with my toast to the happy couple, I was told several times that was a success.
Top   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Always Wondering View Post
I am 30 something years sober and have not closed out a party in that many years.
Sounds like the party got a bit heavy. Very much Saturn in Taurus. But that's the way drink works sometimes. It has a way of releasing a lot of emotional (Venus) stuff that's normally locked away.

I'm probably going to be in the same boat this Friday at my work Social Event. Although I suspect it's going to be more of an 'event' than 'social'.
Top   #20




 


 


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