Arcana
Thanks everyone, for your replies! To be honest, some of it is a little over my head. But it makes me realise I've still got a lot to learn about the tarot, and it inspires me to study more! So, thanks again!
Coins or Pentacles or Discs or Shields
DoctorArcanus
Arcana said:
Discs appear in the Sola Busca deck dating to the end of the XV century or (more likely) first decades of the XVI and produced in Venice or Ferrara.
For instance:
http://images.facade.com/i/t/sola_busca/l/r40.jpg
The four represents a woman carrying four very heavy discs. These discs look very much like metal dishes, wich were common tools during the Renaissence.
http://images.facade.com/i/t/sola_busca/l/r42.jpg
The six was obviously known to Pamela Coleman Smith. This is an interesting topic that I would like to discuss more in depth in a dedicated thread.
http://images.facade.com/i/t/sola_busca/l/r49.jpg
The queen is wonderful. She uses her disc as a mirror. In another thread, it has been suggested that this could point to a connection with the "missing virtue" of prudence. The artist who produced this deck was a genius. Of course, the most creative touch are the illustrated pips, but some of the court cards are beautiful!
http://images.facade.com/i/t/sola_busca/l/r50.jpg
The king highlights a similarity between discs and shields.
Marco
jmd
Some weeks ago I came across an illustration from a manuscript in the Bibliotheque Nationale (no other information), reproduced in the slim volume by Jean Gimpel The Cathedral Builders, 1983, page 93 (attached).
It is worth noting that the image appears upside-down in the manuscript, possibly forming part of a round of bordered illustrations (now who says tarot cannot be read 'reversed' because images are made to be seen only 'upright'?).
The image is of two masons between whom is a flat panel (perhaps a slate). They are clearly gambling, with the person on the right-hand side placing some coins upon the surface, and the other shaking in his hand at least three dice.
Of interest are the manner in which the coins are depicted, the top one having a very clearly inscribed pentagramme.
I am not of course suggesting that this forms in any way part of the reason for the progressive alterations from Levi's 'pantacle' to Waite's and Colman Smith's pentagramme - only that, as a coin, it was at least in use for illustrations quite early on, presumable prior to the first extant Tarot.
It is worth noting that the image appears upside-down in the manuscript, possibly forming part of a round of bordered illustrations (now who says tarot cannot be read 'reversed' because images are made to be seen only 'upright'?).
The image is of two masons between whom is a flat panel (perhaps a slate). They are clearly gambling, with the person on the right-hand side placing some coins upon the surface, and the other shaking in his hand at least three dice.
Of interest are the manner in which the coins are depicted, the top one having a very clearly inscribed pentagramme.
I am not of course suggesting that this forms in any way part of the reason for the progressive alterations from Levi's 'pantacle' to Waite's and Colman Smith's pentagramme - only that, as a coin, it was at least in use for illustrations quite early on, presumable prior to the first extant Tarot.
Attachments
kwaw
The derivation of the term pentacle/pantacle are unclear, the terms seem to have been interchangeable [the term 'pentacle' was not used soley, or even mostly, of a 5 sided figure but for all sort of talismanic images, as was 'pantacle']. One suggested etymology is that penta/panta is derived from french/italian for 'to hang' pendu, as in an amulet that would be hung round the neck. Both versions of the spelling can be found in french [the french translation of John Dee's hieroglyphic monad refers to 'gravure' on a 'pantacle'].
One possible difference in usage between 'pentacles' and 'pantacles' is that while I have seen the term pantacle used to refer to the ritual plate on which bread/wafers are kept I haven't seen the term 'pentacle' used to refer to the same. Crowley refers to the ritual wafer itself as a pantacle, and there are old references to the coins suit being called 'loafs' or 'bread' ['pan' could etymologically be linked to 'bread'].
Medieval magic rituals describe wafers of bread [pot boiled or coal baked unleavened bread], that are inscribed with magical letters and sigils then eaten by the magician or his disciple, according to one legend this is how Moses passed on his magical knowledge [recalls the strange looking 'cake' or 'pot boiled bread' on the 'magicians' table in the early painted deck?].
'Panta' is also greek for 'objective reality', all manifest 'things', suitable perhaps for the 'earth' element.
Kwaw
One possible difference in usage between 'pentacles' and 'pantacles' is that while I have seen the term pantacle used to refer to the ritual plate on which bread/wafers are kept I haven't seen the term 'pentacle' used to refer to the same. Crowley refers to the ritual wafer itself as a pantacle, and there are old references to the coins suit being called 'loafs' or 'bread' ['pan' could etymologically be linked to 'bread'].
Medieval magic rituals describe wafers of bread [pot boiled or coal baked unleavened bread], that are inscribed with magical letters and sigils then eaten by the magician or his disciple, according to one legend this is how Moses passed on his magical knowledge [recalls the strange looking 'cake' or 'pot boiled bread' on the 'magicians' table in the early painted deck?].
'Panta' is also greek for 'objective reality', all manifest 'things', suitable perhaps for the 'earth' element.
Kwaw
roppo
a la Trappola
Recently I found a very interesting set of early playing cards called "15th century engraved playing cards a la Trappola". It consists of 4 suits, namely, wands, cups, swords, and pomegranates. And every cards has its own pictorial presentation. These I scanned and uploaded in my website.
http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~elfindog/ottgl05.htm
Sorry, the texts are in Japanese (my website is basically for my friends), but you can see the cards just by clicking the numbers from 43 to 89. They are from William Young Ottley's "A Collection of One Hundred and Twenty-Nine Facsimiles of Scarce and Curious Prints, by the Early Masters of the Italian, German, and Flemish Schools"(1828).
I believe they are quite intersting to you all!
Recently I found a very interesting set of early playing cards called "15th century engraved playing cards a la Trappola". It consists of 4 suits, namely, wands, cups, swords, and pomegranates. And every cards has its own pictorial presentation. These I scanned and uploaded in my website.
http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~elfindog/ottgl05.htm
Sorry, the texts are in Japanese (my website is basically for my friends), but you can see the cards just by clicking the numbers from 43 to 89. They are from William Young Ottley's "A Collection of One Hundred and Twenty-Nine Facsimiles of Scarce and Curious Prints, by the Early Masters of the Italian, German, and Flemish Schools"(1828).
I believe they are quite intersting to you all!
DoctorArcanus
jmd said:
I wonder if the objects that look like coins could instead be dice....possibly like these:
http://membres.lycos.fr/arjan/an_14.htm
Marco
jmd
Wonderful to have access to those images, Kenji!
And as usual, so wonderful to read the various contributions - always a delight!
The three coins in the hand of the images I attached earlier are clearly flat circular objects, and, given also the clarity of the dice in the hand of the other person (perhaps my scans are not as clear as the image in the book), I cannot see the coin-looking object in any manner resembling the truncated cubic dice linked by Marco/DoctorArcanus above - thanks for those... they make wonderful reflections on the archimedian solids and the various ways in which the platonic and archimedian solids may have been allegorically reflected upon as items of metamorphosis.
And as usual, so wonderful to read the various contributions - always a delight!
The three coins in the hand of the images I attached earlier are clearly flat circular objects, and, given also the clarity of the dice in the hand of the other person (perhaps my scans are not as clear as the image in the book), I cannot see the coin-looking object in any manner resembling the truncated cubic dice linked by Marco/DoctorArcanus above - thanks for those... they make wonderful reflections on the archimedian solids and the various ways in which the platonic and archimedian solids may have been allegorically reflected upon as items of metamorphosis.
