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Richard 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redfaery View Post
.....I think the relative difficulty of reading the TdM pips is exaggerated. If you're going to get into number symbolism and elemental dignities, the pips in the TdM are actually easier to work with.
The TdM minors basically constitute a deck of playing cards. There are a variety of ways to read them, none of which are difficult. However, some people find these cards to be uninteresting or uninspiring, especially the pips.



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Migdal93 
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Redfaery, that's exactly what I've started doing today. I'm using the elements, intuition on what cups, coins, wands and swords mean to me, and numerology. It's amazing how simple it can get! And I love this whole "investigative" work to be able to read the cards.
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_R_ 
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Some good advice in this thread, and I'd just like to add that there's no need to jump right in at the deep end and try to shuffle an entire TdM brick just for the sake of it (though you might want to give it a shot and see how you get on).

One thing I've noticed is that some French readers use the 4 Aces with the 22 Major Arcana, instead of the full deck. And I know of a couple that throw in the Court cards for good measure, depending on the type of query.

So it's perfectly legitimate - there are no hard and fast rules here - to ease yourself into reading with 22; 22+4; 22+16; 22+4+16; all the way up until you are shuffling and reading with a full deck.

Some mix the entire pack together and read that in different ways, picking cards until a Major or a pip comes up (forming little 'packets' to be read together, such as in the astrological wheel spread), others shuffle Majors and Minors separately and use the latter to clarify the former. And so on.

The important thing is to experiment and see what happens. And keep notes!



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EvaSegovia 
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I used the RWS for a while, but felt a strong pull to the TdM some 6 mo. ago, give or take... I only read with the Trumps, with excellent results I might add. But Richard, (if you're still viewing) you mentioned that "theTdM minors basically constitute a deck of playing cards. And there are a variety of ways to read them, none of which are difficult." Can you recommend any sources of info on some of these ways? Thanks. Eva
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Barleywine 
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I read solely with the Thoth deck for the first forty years of my tarot journey, never realizing that what it presents is basically "glorified" pip cards that owe a lot to the TdM structure. Because they create moods rather than stories, I fell back on correspondences to make sense of them, and the same approach works for the actual TdM deck. The scenic images in the RWS pips can become a crutch that encourages your interpretive "muscles" to atrophy (kind of like "Lazy Man's Lobster," most the work is done for you). Lately I've been working with the TdM in a trumps-only style, but the small cards offer a continuing enticement to decode them. Numerical and elemental ("suit") correspondences are the backbone of my approach, along with the "pips-as-trumps" model that draws connections between the numbers.



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Barleywine 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvaSegovia View Post
I used the RWS for a while, but felt a strong pull to the TdM some 6 mo. ago, give or take... I only read with the Trumps, with excellent results I might add. But Richard, (if you're still viewing) you mentioned that "theTdM minors basically constitute a deck of playing cards. And there are a variety of ways to read them, none of which are difficult." Can you recommend any sources of info on some of these ways? Thanks. Eva
I'll jump in and mention that, when Lee was moderating the TdM forum, we had many interesting discussions on the subject, if you care to search for them. I have hopes that Caitlin Matthews' upcoming book will offer some new ideas, since there are only a few books in English that cover the territory (Yoav Ben-Dov, Camella Elias, Joseph Maxwell, Alejandro Jodorowsky and Cherry Gilchrist are ones I have, and Enrique Enriquez is on my wish list).



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foolMoon 
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Tarot readings come out from the mind of the reader for the question, aided by intuition. RWS or RWS based decks aid the readers mind by sparking off their intuition by images mainly, whereas TdM pips do by their elemental dignities, numerology, movement / direction of the numbers and elements, Astrological and Kabbalistic Association.

I find the TdM or Thoth pip cards give more rich and flexible readings, as the intuition and imagination is not limited / restricted by the cards images.

All above is possible with RWS type cards, but their image oriented design tend to overwhelm the readings at times, i.e. RWS or RWS based cards tend to give raw and direct association of the ideas in readings stirred / sparked by their graphics on the cards. Sometimes it works great, but at times, it limits the readings.



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EvaSegovia 
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Thanks Barleywine. I WILL search for them, and I noted the books you recommend. Much obliged. Eva
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FWIW, traditional cartomancy offers one way to access the TdM pips. The old Hedgewytchery site had a useful mnemonic for remembering pip card meanings that can easily translate into tarot as well. (The usual correspondences are Coins: Diamonds, Cups:Hearts, Batons:Clubs, Swords:Spades).

This too is based on numerology, and broadly consistent with RWS meanings as well. By that what I mean is that most of the RWS meanings are one of several possibilities that can come from the number/element/suit method set forth in that poem.



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Migdal93 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihcoyc View Post
FWIW, traditional cartomancy offers one way to access the TdM pips. The old Hedgewytchery site had a useful mnemonic for remembering pip card meanings that can easily translate into tarot as well. (The usual correspondences are Coins: Diamonds, Cups:Hearts, Batons:Clubs, Swords:Spades).

This too is based on numerology, and broadly consistent with RWS meanings as well. By that what I mean is that most of the RWS meanings are one of several possibilities that can come from the number/element/suit method set forth in that poem.
This link is amazing! Just finished writing down that poem on my BOS. Thanks so much for sharing.
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