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Zephyros 
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I've never read Jung, but I'm sick of him already! Will someone explain to me what's so brilliant that every New Age mouth seems totally enamored of him? I've even noticed such people never actually say anything by or of him, merely the mention of the name is enough to elicit nods from everyone else, never mind that his name is used to justify meaningless drivel.

Bleh.

Sorry, end of rant. Must be the pre-workout talking.



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Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa View Post
I've never read Jung, but I'm sick of him already! Will someone explain to me what's so brilliant that every New Age mouth seems totally enamored of him? I've even noticed such people never actually say anything by or of him, merely the mention of the name is enough to elicit nods from everyone else, never mind that his name is used to justify meaningless drivel.

Bleh.

Sorry, end of rant. Must be the pre-workout talking.


I own a few of his novels. Most notably The Archetypes and The Collective Unconscious and Aion. I've read most of Archetypes and it is a great book for understanding how your collective unconscious works. The anima and the animus is a good concept. The Mother Archetype stood out to me the most, very informative and more so now than it was when it was written. I think the band Tool has opened a new generation up to reading Jung with the album Ænima. I have not read Aion yet.



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Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa View Post
I've never read Jung, but I'm sick of him already! Will someone explain to me what's so brilliant that every New Age mouth seems totally enamored of him? I've even noticed such people never actually say anything by or of him, merely the mention of the name is enough to elicit nods from everyone else, never mind that his name is used to justify meaningless drivel.

Bleh.

Sorry, end of rant. Must be the pre-workout talking.
Oh Clos ... I am sure you would enjoy the writings of a man that had his own personal daemon that helped him to become a great psychologist (thats the part they DONT want to talk about ) .

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/3095...rought-home-to

Its tied in with Goethe's Faust (the better version) ;

http://carljungdepthpsychology.blogs...g-replied.html

And seems to be similar to Blavatsky's King John (or John King) - and a 'host' of other's 'familiars' that seem to hover between the 'personal daemon' and 'genius' (interesting word that).

Also his further developments of the concept of the soul as ... the desire, needs and expressions of the unconscious ... that must be expressed in various patterns and forms for the individual and collective and the possible results of repressing that 'imaginative soul' expression.

Also other things , like the 'religious instinct' and ... well, he did sort of follow on after Freud ... thats a great act to follow .

But I think (as you know) his work has to be extended , and my fav path is through the works and research of VanDusen and Harpur * .... now ... if one follows along from the Neoplatonists > Hermetic Magicians > Swedenborg > Jung > VanDusen > Harpur ... thats a pretty good stream IMO ... much will be revealed.

* http://www.theisticpsychology.org/bo...ce_spirits.htm

http://dreamflesh.com/interviews/patrick-harpur/



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Babalon Jones 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa View Post
I've never read Jung, but I'm sick of him already! Will someone explain to me what's so brilliant that every New Age mouth seems totally enamored of him? I've even noticed such people never actually say anything by or of him, merely the mention of the name is enough to elicit nods from everyone else, never mind that his name is used to justify meaningless drivel.

Bleh.

Sorry, end of rant. Must be the pre-workout talking.
I get what you mean, re the knowing nodding of heads, and the psychobabble aspect of those who name drop him. But I do appreciate his contribution to the concept of Synchronicty. I have only read a few of his works: Man and His Symbols (dated but not terrible), Memories, Dreams, and Reflections (which I remember enjoying but it was far too long ago and all intelligent commentary has fled), Sermons of the Dead (which reminded me in tone to Nietzsche's " Thus Spake Zarathustra") and The Red Book, which I got as a gift and really like but admittedly more for the art, but also for the parts in which he writes anout his experiments with "active imagination" and the visions he obtained. I used to pine to duplicate those, unsuccessfully, until I realized I sort of have done something similar all my life, but was maybe assigning more intensity and validity to his way, cause I am used to mine. (?) maybe. If that makes sense. i have nothing real to compare my own ways to. But the concept of The Red Book in a way is one of the factors that led to the creation of my first deck, and I also have started my own Red Book in a sense. But it has gotten the short end of the stick since my tarot art takes all my free time, and I do not create the tarot art in the book because it would be too hard to scan that way. I had a book maker make me the most beautiful leather bound blank book, with my design of the art of the cover in 3d molding, but it is huge, like 12x12 and 3-4 inches thick. This bookmaker is so talented, I should post a picture of it. When (if) I ever finish all the tarot art, filling that book will be the project that lasts the rest of my life!



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Originally Posted by Aeon418 View Post
If I had a penny for everytime I've heard someone conflate Jung's theory of Archetypes with the world of Atziluth - The Archetypal realm.
The world of Briah is a closer match for Jung's archetypes. Atziluth on the other hand might be better undertsood as the world of the Archetyper.
Yes, it has been said that Atziluth is the Archetypal world, in line with Plato's perspective: The Archetypes as the divine ideas based on which the world was created.

The Trumps belong to the paths on the ToL and are active (psychologically motivating) forces, therefore they are associated with the King scale, in contrast to the Sephiroth which are more passive in nature and linked with the Queen scale.

Now, we find the whole ToL iterated on every level, so the Archetypes exist in each of the four worlds, really.
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Yes, it has been said that Atziluth is the Archetypal world, in line with Plato's perspective: The Archetypes as the divine ideas based on which the world was created.
I would place Plato's perspective in Briah. Atziluth on the other hand is the creative urge preceeding the appearance of 'ideal forms'.



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Originally Posted by Lil Red View Post
Hi everyone,

Thoth sure is an interesting deck and I fell more in love with it after reading "Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot" . After I read his book I understood what Aleister was trying to say much clearly. The problem was that I noticed that the deck is based on the Gold Dawn, but I honestly believe it emphasize more on the quabalistic approach (I also understand that it emphasize Thelma as well). It got to the point that I visited a couple of times a qabalah temple (B.O.T.A more precise).

What I am trying to say is instead of viewing tarot using qabalah, what is the holistic approach to Thoth tarot?

Also what is another approach I can use to learning more about Thoth?

Lastly, I understand that I do not need to read Crowley bio to understand his work, but are all his books helpful to understand Thoth Tarot?

Oh ya before I forget, I was thinking in buying the Gold Dawn tarot to compare each card as well to see the similarity of the deck. I am just fascinated on the idea of it as well the inspiration of how thoth came to be.


I feel the same! I have been bidding on Aleister Crowley books since I joined this forum to help me out with Thoth Tarot when I get it. I Just happened to get an old copy of The Book Of Thoth for $10.00 and I'm also trying to get some books by Israel Regardie hoping there is some information in there as well connected to Thoth Tarot. I do believe there is something there in The Tree Of Life and The Golden Dawn by Israel Regardie. I'm not quite sure on that though. There has to be some connection hence the Rosicrucian Cross on the back of the Thoth Tarot. I will find out soon enough!



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Michael Sternbach 
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Originally Posted by Aeon418 View Post
I would place Plato's perspective in Briah. Atziluth on the other hand is the creative urge preceeding the appearance of 'ideal forms'.
But certainly we are to place a whole ToL complete with paths in Atziluth?
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Aeon418 
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But certainly we are to place a whole ToL complete with paths in Atziluth?
Absolutely. But the Yetziratic construct called the Tree of Life isn't Atziluthic itself. That would be confusing the map with the territory.



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Zephyros 
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But that same construct is a symbol, even an echo, of the "real" Atziluthic Tree. Seen from that perspective, the only real Trumps are those in Atziluth, all the ones in the lower worlds are modified heavily.

ETA: or did everyone just say that in different words?



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