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Courts discussion (Split from Book T and the Astrological Signs)

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Quote:
Originally Posted by similia
Y its likely Scion and I are referring to different things. There are a several ways to line the Courts up with the decans and zodiac signs. There is a thread I asked about part of Crowley's book here that shows two ways, but they aren't the only ways.
Sort of, G... but actuallyt there is only one way that the GD associates the courts with the decans. The "other" thing Crowley is talking about is Sephirothic attribution (as in Queens are all in Binah with the 3s).

I'm running late so I'm braindumping and will clean up my mess later.

The problem with using modern astrology books is that they turn themselves inside out to explain why everything in the sky indicates a subjective mood, but don't actually contain much astrology. For anyone who's feeling frisky I really recommend The Real Astrology by John Frawley and The Moment of Astrology by Geoffrey Cornelius. Modern sun sign astrology is pretty embarassing when you get down to brass tacks, but that's a whole different convo.

As for GD Kings (on horseback) ruling the Fixed signs... the disconnect people are having is with the word "fixed." Fixed doesn't only mean "stationary." The way I keep it clear for myself is to think of it in this context as a synonym for "focused." Cardinal is the "throned" mode because it occupies the starting point of each sign. They "oversee" the rest of the sign and are "aware" of the entirety of the sign's element/mode intersection. The GD Kings (on horseback) express the sign at it's most "swift and violent, but transient" (BoT) ruling the "Royal" stars in Leo, Scorpio, Aquarius and Taurus. And the mutable princes represent the combined energy of both parents, which will (mutably) pass as he weds the Queen and becomes the new (mounted in all sense of the word) King... (There's another whole question here about that lingering 10 degrees of the prior sign I'd love to get into later.)

But this thread should really be about the MInors and the Decans, right? I'm sorry for the Court digression. More on the minors shortly.

More importantly we're using the Picatrix's rulerships and NOT the Jyotish (& modenr astrological) rulerships of the decans... which is in itself a clue. The Golden Dawn is poointing us back to the Picatrix and (for once) NOT to Agrippa, which actually goes to prove Ravenest's point about thee magickal use of the stars. I've lots to say about that choice and the implications but I've just seen the time.

But I'm going to be late this morning so I'm just gonna post this and see what pops out of the soup today.


Scion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scion
Sort of, G... but actuallyt there is only one way that the GD associates the courts with the decans. .....As for GD Kings (on horseback) ruling the Fixed signs...
This is where your loosing me Scion, cause I also thought there was only one way of associating the Courts with the Decans, and the one I know doesn't seem to match what your saying. I look up the Courts in Crowley, or Book T etc and I see the Knights listed as having the last decan of the preeceding Fixed sign, and the first 2 decans of the elementally matching Mutable sign.

It seems to me your saying the Knight/King of Wands (horse guy/yod) is ruling fixed Fire, Leo.
But the books are saying to me its attributed to the last decan of Fixed Water (Scorpio) and the first 2 decans of Mutable Fire (Sagittarius). So it would in fact "rule" the 7 of Cups and 8 & 9 of Wands. Unless rule is a term your using to imply something different than line up with in the Zodiac.

Which is a little confusing to me. Though your not alone in that suggestion. Wang makes a similar suggestion in his Qabalistic Tarot. Not for the Thoth of GD decks, where he seems to also suggest the Knights are predominantly mutable, but he matches the Knight/Kings on horses with the RWS Kings on Thrones (which I think are more properly matched to the Princes and hence the Fixed signs).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scion
As for GD Kings (on horseback) ruling the Fixed signs... the disconnect people are having is with the word "fixed." Fixed doesn't only mean "stationary." The way I keep it clear for myself is to think of it in this context as a synonym for "focused." Cardinal is the "throned" mode because it occupies the starting point of each sign. They "oversee" the rest of the sign and are "aware" of the entirety of the sign's element/mode intersection. The GD Kings (on horseback) express the sign at it's most "swift and violent, but transient" (BoT) ruling the "Royal" stars in Leo, Scorpio, Aquarius and Taurus. And the mutable princes represent the combined energy of both parents, which will (mutably) pass as he weds the Queen and becomes the new (mounted in all sense of the word) King...

OK one more thing before you drop this part of the discussion.... the way I learned it astrologically is mutable, cardinal, fixed. The season transitions during the mutable sign.... so for example summer ends and fall is on it's way during Virgo a mutable sign - the season truly begins during libra a cardinal sign and continues full on during the fixed sign scorpio...... sagitarius brings the end of fall and the transition to winter.... capricorn brings in beginning of winter.... aquarius full on winter..... pisces brings in the end of winter and the transition to spring... and so forth.

Mutable signs usually can go with the flow - they can react well to change (the child analogy is a good one) change is what they are about. They would be the princes in GD - knights everywhere else. Queens are cardinal - they take action, they are the manifestation of the sign and the Kings/knights are the fixed aspect of the sign - they like to run things - rule.

The trouble for me is.... on some of the thoth cards the symbols are odd - like the prince of disks has a bull, the symbol of taurus, depicted. The prince should be virgo ? The queen should be taurus but she has a goat on her card...capricorn? The knight of cups has a crab above his cup - cancer and that is a cardinal sign - therefore should be representative of the queen. This part has me confused.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by similia
This is where your loosing me Scion, cause I also thought there was only one way of associating the Courts with the Decans, and the one I know doesn't seem to match what your saying. I look up the Courts in Crowley, or Book T etc and I see the Knights listed as having the last decan of the preeceding Fixed sign, and the first 2 decans of the elementally matching Mutable sign.
No this is MY bad. There is only one way of assignment, but I confused the issue by swapping the kings & princes' modes. So dumb.

Way back on page one of this thread I said Princes were Mutable, but the the Princes are FIXED. The KINGS are mutable. Duh. Totally my bad. This is what I get for juggling too many balls. I'd suspected something was off when I was typing this morning but I didn't go back and check my own work. Note to self: must sleep.

The Princes are Fixed, the Cherubim rule the elements from Tiphareth. Sorry. Ack!! How embarassing! But the rest of what I'd said above stands... The Mutability (as I htink Fran pointed out above) is much more approprioate for the transition and shift of the element. Ack. I'm suyre somewhere in my confusion was a lingering thought about the WS vs./ Crowley courts.

Now going back to fix those posts so that are at least correct.... Must write a treatment now, but will come back to discuss further later on.
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wuh????????
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[QUOTE=Scion] This is what I get for juggling too many balls. I'd suspected something was off when I was typing this morning but I didn't go back and check my own work. Note to self: must sleep. QUOTE]

I have wondered when you find time to sleep.
(A bit jealoulsy as I admire all your accomplshments.

AW
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