Upside-down M solved [maybe]

Abrac

I don't think it's Malkah, but probably Matrona. There's a reference to Matrona in Mathers' Kabbalah Unveiled and it was written way before the publication of the Waite-Smith tarot.

That's enough to demonstrate Waite could have easily been familiar with the concept. But this aside, just because the word Matrona doesn't appear in Waite's 1902 book proves nothing.

All you have to do is read the FRC Practicus Ritual and look at the Ace and it's plain as day.
 

Abrac

There are quite a few references to Mathers in Waite's earlier Kabbalah book. Several specifically mention The Kabbalah Unveiled.
 

Zephyros

Abrac said:
All you have to do is read the FRC Practicus Ritual and look at the Ace and it's plain as day.
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As clear as it was eleven pages ago, when it was definitively solved? ;)

I'm just teasing, this has been a fascinating thread to observe, but I'm inclined to agree with Teheuti on this one, that it is nigh-impossible to pin down without a shadow of a doubt what it is. In my opinion it isn't just one idea being being conveyed, but many and perhaps all those theories mentioned here, the symbol being a composite of sorts.
 

Teheuti

Just re-read the FRC Practicus Ritual (dated 1916) and it's not as clear as day to me (added: why the M would stand for Matrona). We all get attached to different things and find it hard not to understand why everyone else doesn't see things in exactly the same way.
 

Abrac

I'm not married to anything. If an idea comes tomorrow that makes more sense than today, I'll be on it. The only difference between ideas of the past and now is Waite's own detailed descriptions. :)
 

Abrac

The opening of the Practicus ritual says:

"Master of the Temple: May the grace of our symbols be with us. May the sense of their plenary (Complete in all aspects or essentials; full; absolute) attributions be awakened within us. May their presence be declared in our consciousness and renewed in the Soul of the Order."

This doesn't have anything with Matrona, but it's just one example that shows the symbols are intended to be understood. Waite wouldn't have had a problem with a person interpreting the symbols for themself, but the quote above dispels the idea that he had no specific meanings in mind and that there wasn't a doctrine behind them.
 

ravenest

I interpret a Golden Dawn ritual referring to the 'grace of OUR symbols' as GD symbols, the ones they use in ritual. Not any random initial.

Is there a special GD M or W symbol used in their teachings ?


If anything, I think all the meanings here could be valid, especially for a cup.

many 'significant' cups have initials on them, in the Waite tarot, such a symbol on a 'chalice' seems to make pretty simple sense; water, Waite, Mary, Madonna, ....
 

Teheuti

I just came across another possibility for M/W: Metatron/Messiah = Word. See The Secret Tradition in Israel (1913):

“In respect of Shekinah and Messiah it is maintained that the former designates the Second Degree of the Divine Essence, otherwise the Second Person, in Chokmah—and is also the Word. The Shekinah in transcendence is the Word before incarnation and below is the Word made flesh. It is stated in the Zohar that the Shekinah does become incarnate and in so doing assumes the form of man. The incarnation of Messiah is by operation of the Vau, and the Zohar indicates that there is unity between God and the Redeemer. This incarnation of the He, or Word, is recognized by Rabbi Simeon. The Messiah is Metatron, or the body of Shekinah—which is said to be the same thing.” p. 300.

“According to the Zohar, there is a wine which is the synthesis of all joys, an ancient and sacred wine which was known to Jacob, Joseph, and David. Metatron in the personality of Enoch is said to have administered it to the patriarchs. It is not connected with the wine carried by Melchizedek, but according to the French editors—we have here an allusion to the mystery of transubstantiation.” p. 306-7.
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It's really necessary to read the whole section to get what is going on here. It is part of one of the few references to the Graal found in this book.

Still it is worth noting the end of Waite's Preface, where he states the thesis of the book:
“[This study] has been attempted for the specific purpose of proving that behind each and all there lies a single radical and essential thesis which is spoken of in general terms as the Mystery of Faith. It is this thesis which constitutes the vital part of the Secret Doctrine in Israel.” p. xi.
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Added:
Mystery of Faith, Metatron, Messiah, Mother, Matrona, Mar (sea), Mem (water), . . . .

Water, Waite, Word, Womb, Wisdom, YHWH . . .
 

ravenest

Interesting ... especially since in Masonry the equivalent is shin not vau.

Shin being the letter of fire ( and a handy symbol - in 'retrospect' of the trinity - 3 in one).

Also Y H V H (as it appears in degraded forms on some Masonic aprons)

A higher degree show a shin in the middle

YH Sh VH - 'Jahovah' becomes Jeheshua- Jesus. Also supported by the rite of that apron where the descent of fire is outlined

and in Penticost, where we see the flames or 'tongues' of fire over the Apostle's heads.

If it was 'operated' by the Vau ... then YH V VH ... ? And a V would be on the cup ?

The association directly with 'Messiah' seems to make more sense. - remission of sins by the redemption of Christ's blood (collected in the 'Grail' ) .
 

Teheuti

In the chapter I quoted from Waite was considering material in the Zohar that could be said to describe the coming of the Messiah. Since it references only the Hebrew Bible there is no Yeshuah (Shin) to be added to YHVH.
 
Waite-Trinick subforum? PCS Ten of Swords: blue water/a wave instead of red blood or cloak?