Pebble Back Repro?

Aeric

The only thing that prevents me from enjoying the Smith-Waite Centennial is the new deck back. While I find it personally distracting and detrimental to my success with the deck, I have to wonder why SWC, or any other Rider deck for that matter, hasn't been published with the original brown-orange pebbled back of the first print.

From what I've read, the Rose and Lilies of the Original Rider Waite is the closest to a restoration of an historic back from 1910 or 11, but the front imagery is of an inferior facsimile (Pam-C I believe it's called). Why hasn't any company released a Pam-A quality repro with the pebbled back restored, or a Rose and Lilies Pam-A?

There are very few original copies of this deck in existence that we know of, so a reproduction wouldn't be too difficult to identify, especially with the U.S. Games mark or something similar. I'd think it'd be a huge hit and one of if not the most historically accurate repros, front and back.
 

Abrac

Hey Aeric, I was a little disappointed too by the backs of the SWC, but after all it was intended as a tribute to Pamela not a true reproduction so I don't have anything to complain about. Decks get published if the publisher thinks they can make money on it, so US Games must have believed they would make more on the SWC than a repro. I'm still waiting on a good repro of a Pam A, either with dried mud backs or roses and lilies. I hardly every buy decks these days but I think I'd buy that. Whether the masses would or not is hard to say.

I think when US Games published the Original Rider Waite Pack, Stuart Kaplan believed it really was the original. But recent research and discoveries seem to indicate something else.
 

Aeric

I think when US Games published the Original Rider Waite Pack, Stuart Kaplan believed it really was the original. But recent research and discoveries seem to indicate something else.
I like this a lot. This puts Original squarely in the timeline of Tarot's history of discovery. We now know differently, but the deck reflects an older awareness of what was thought original. From the standpoint of provenance and Tarot scholarship, it's very important.
 

Essence of Winter

Hey Aeric, I was a little disappointed too by the backs of the SWC, but after all it was intended as a tribute to Pamela not a true reproduction so I don't have anything to complain about. Decks get published if the publisher thinks they can make money on it, so US Games must have believed they would make more on the SWC than a repro. I'm still waiting on a good repro of a Pam A, either with dried mud backs or roses and lilies. I hardly every buy decks these days but I think I'd buy that. Whether the masses would or not is hard to say.

I think when US Games published the Original Rider Waite Pack, Stuart Kaplan believed it really was the original. But recent research and discoveries seem to indicate something else.

Which version does the Lo Scarabeo 'Centennial Edition' reproduce? The only thing stopping me from looking for it is that they have added their standard border to it, which does not make it feel original.
 

truelighth

The only thing that prevents me from enjoying the Smith-Waite Centennial is the new deck back. While I find it personally distracting and detrimental to my success with the deck, I have to wonder why SWC, or any other Rider deck for that matter, hasn't been published with the original brown-orange pebbled back of the first print.

From what I've read, the Rose and Lilies of the Original Rider Waite is the closest to a restoration of an historic back from 1910 or 11, but the front imagery is of an inferior facsimile (Pam-C I believe it's called). Why hasn't any company released a Pam-A quality repro with the pebbled back restored, or a Rose and Lilies Pam-A?

The Smith-Waite Centennial deck from US Games is a reproduction of the Pam-Roses&Lilies and not of the Pam-A with the crackled back. There is a difference in saturation of the colouring between the two decks. So if this was to be a true reproduction, it would include the Roses&Lilies back instead of the pebbled back.

As for why US Games has not done that, the reason is simple. If they made a true reproduction of the Roses&Lilies deck, they would not be able to copyright it. By adding a different back, they have copyright on this deck again. Mind you, their copyright is actually only for the modifications they made (meaning the back). But nobody wants to battle them on this of course.
 

Aeric

Oh, I was confused. I had thought that Pam-Rose and Pam-Pebble were the same Pam-A with different backs. I hadn't known the image quality was different.
 

Zephyros

The obvious answer to almost every question is usually "money" but I have to ask why USG, instead of issuing special editions, original editions, centennial editions and whatnot just improve their flagship standard deck? Publish specially boxed sets with included books if you will, but when the standard LWB still contains a blurb about how accurate it is, how it is a great reproduction when by their own admission, by issuing originals and centennials, it is an inferior product, why not just make it better?

It's ink on paper, with modern computerized printing methods, it wouldn't be a problem. I do concede that the standard RWS has earned an iconic stature of its own, mainly because of its longevity, and the fact that for years it was the only one available, but it is still strange to me that an edition "honoring" an artist comes out, when a greater honor would be to actually respect her legacy by improving the cornerstone of the company producing it. USG spends great amounts of money protecting its copyright, but at the end of the day, they don't actually do anything with it.
 

Debra

Well no. Pixie herself was leery of the printing process.

The pebble back isn't particularly attractive, by the way.
 

Aeric

Did Pixie also design the pebble and rose backs, or was that Waite or someone else?
 

Abrac

I agree the roses & lilies looks nicer than the dried mud. I'd just like to see a good reproduction of either one that has authentic colors and backs instead of cartooney colors or the eyesore that is the Original Rider Waite Pack. I don't want an original one bad enough to spend the kind of money it would take so a nice repro would be perfect alternative. Knowing US Games though they'd have to include copyright notices and ruin the whole thing. :laugh: