6 of Swords Continued from "Using Numbers"

I would like to start a new thread on the 6 of Swords:

1) This is exactly the card that compelled me to seek another (personal) system based on astrology and numerology.

2)This is an attempt to "save" the "Using Numbers in Readings" thread from the discussion of one card (i.e., the 6 of Swords)

3) Am I the only one who sees the archetype on the 6 of Swords as Charon ferrying passengers across the River Styx?

Ah! (Helvetica slaps forehead) - I see where you have trouble with seeing the 6 of Swords as "harmony of the mind" (or an effort to reach such, as per Tarotbear). Yes - Charon indeed! But you forget Waite and Colman-Smith were esoteric Christians, and for them, the vessel of Charon - of death - is the ultimate voyage towards harmony of the soul. It seems they were saying - as long as we are alive, the mind will never really be at peace. Only when we take the boat to the Other Side will we find such peace...

Robin Wood speaks ...

In the Robin Wood deck it really does look like Charon (are we spelling that correctly?) - a transparent figure propels the swan-shaped boat forward.

According to Robin's book she says the key is 'Rite of Passage.' to quote page 138 - "This card means passing from one state of consciousness to another, higher one. It can also mean leaving troubles behind, going to a safer place, or finding understanding. Also, a journey by water." Later she adds: It is being ferried by an unseen boatman to show that even when we don't seem to be in control, we are not really drifting without guidence.

edited to add pic of Wood and Rider cards

tarotbear said:

Charon (are we spelling that correctly?)

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Yes, I googled it to check the spelling. I am wondering if there is a relation to the name Chiron (aka Sagittarius).

kilts_knave said:

Am I the only one who sees the archetype on the 6 of Swords as Charon ferrying passengers across the River Styx?

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Depends on the image. I can see this in the RWS and perhaps some others. But in the Gilded (done in the RWS model), it depicts (for me, anyway) Morgaine in the barge of Avalon.

Asher

Asher said:

Depends on the image. I can see this in the RWS and perhaps some others. But in the Gilded (done in the RWS model), it depicts (for me, anyway) Morgaine in the barge of Avalon.

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It's the same basic mythic image, even if the actual myth is different. Gaston Bachelard made a fascinating study of the myth of Charon, in which he includes all the "crossing into Other Worlds" journeys by water. Avalon, of course, is the Other World of the Celts. It's interesting to see it all played out differently in the scenes chosen for this card. I wonder about the journey and the "other world" aspect.

Kilt's Knave - Charon and Chiron have different Greek roots altogether. One comes from Char- meaning bright. Charon is "the bright one"; and the other from Chir (Cheir), meaning hand. Chiron means the one who is handy, the healer.

Edited to remove "as a centaur he had no hands", which is absurd, of course - he had no human feet

Hi, In the Wicca Celts from Kisma K. Stepanich the image of 6 of swords it’s amazing.
There is a path with 3 swords on both sides. Magic inscriptions in a stone wall from Druids and in the right corner green grass and a blue feather

Perhaps this is what Pollack means by 'gate' cards - they inspire such extensive and dramatic discussion.....LOL

I must say that I 'grew up' on Crowley, and have only recently bought and started playing with RWS, after having done a basic tarot course (which taught using RWS).

As I have mentioned elsewhere, I like to take a comparative approach to get to the bottom of card meanings. Remember both Waite and Crowley were members of the Golden Dawn, and it was required that every member develop their own Tarot deck. It was also standard practice to deliberately omit really special, secret info on published decks/books - after all, if you want to know the secrets, then join the club and go through the hard yards yourself....

So I have often wondered whether this is an example of one of those 'red herring' cards - maybe 'gate' is Pollack's own cheeky way of saying "this card holds true esoteric importance, so I'm going to tell you something else just to confuse ou and make you think for yourself..." LOL

Having said that, I am now trying to reconcile Waite's ferry scene with Crowley's 'Science'.
From the Kabbalistic POV - 6's are harmony, the sephirot that lies in the centre of the Axis Mundi (its the point where one could say "all paths lead to Tiphareth" - except that they don't... lol)
But the swords are double-edged - they can be used for good or for evil; so what would be a harmonious aspect of swords?

This is where I like the idea of the 'journey' interpretation, that somehow (although I can't quite put my hypothetical finger on it) sits well with the Crowley's idea of Science - the journey to the other shore!

There is a Buddhist tale of how a Boddhisattva (I forget which one) was sitting on a shore one day peering over at the other side. He wasn't dealing well with the side he was on, and that yonder one looked so much better. So he strolls over to a ferryman and says, "take me over there!" The ferryman says, "are you sure? coz once i take you there, i wont be able to bring you back."
So they go, and Bod is looking back going, "phew! I'm glad I'm leaving that shore!". But as they get further into the middle of the water-way, he looks bck and the shore he left doesn't look as bad as it did anymore - in fact, both shores look the same.
And so when the boat reaches the other shore, Bod steps off and now this shore doesn't look as good as it did from the other side, and (you guessed it) the one he left now looks heaps more pleasing. And the ferryman says some words of wisdom and departs, and now Bod realises that the best place was actually in the boat in the middle of the water-way, where both shores look great!
That's a rather heretical and apocryphal re-telling of that particular tale, but it does kinda get to the point of the 6 swords (no pun intended):

Perhaps its all about perspective. The unattainable objective viewpoint of Quantum physics. Perhaps if we rationally/logically (swords, mind, etc) look at something from all points of view, we find truth - and perhaps this holistic, quantum approch is the Science of Nature, the science that Crowley was trying to convey. Its not science as in test tubes and microscopes, but the science that occurs every day within the Universe. The place where magic, mysticism, measurement, and the mundane all live and cooperate in harmony (music of the spheres).
Is this not a journey of our minds? To reach the other shore to observe our issue/problem? I liked the description of that other card with the 3 swords on either side of a path leading to a cave/barrow/funeral mound (whatever it is) - that to me fits snugly with this idea.

And hey, the symbolism of the Ferryman/Charon - perhaps he is the Hierophant, or maybe the Hermit? Perhaps later on in the Buddhist tale, the ferryman comes back when the Boddhisattva has his realisation, and they go off boating together to lots of different shores....maybe get in a spot of fishing while they're at it.... LOL

How do y'all feel about that? I'd love some feedback.....

Interesting. One, ths 6 of Swords is one card that confused me so much I decided to abandon picture cards for a while --I just couldn't deal. Two, when I was intent on "memorizring" meanings, one of my key words for Science was "metacognition." (I had alphabetized the suits and numbers--I know I know complusive and strange, but, hey, that's me!) Metacognitive science is a new educator's tool invented by Metuchen that allows for self-teaching (low-level taxonomy) to self-assessment (high-level taxonomy)
http://www.ops.org/reading/blooms_taxonomy.html
I use Bloom's in the Celtic Cross...

Don't you just love synchronicity....

I just found these snippets; I think they kinda help my understanding of the 6 SWORDS as I contributed above.

The first is from an article Betty McAllister wrote on Ch'an [zen] Buddhism in the latest Aust. Theosophical Society Journal:
"A number of Ch'an ideas are found in the prajna-paramita literature... [which] translates as 'perfection through wisdom' and is usually taken to mean 'wisdom for crossing to the other side' or 'great wisdom to reach the opposite shore'."

The next is a quote from the famous Zen-meister, DT Suzuki, re: Nagarjuna's Middle-Way School (of Buddhism), from which comes the famous Buddhist doctrine of the void:
"The Middle-way is where there is neither middle nor two sides. When you are fettered by the objective world, you have one side; when you are disturbed in your own mind [subjectivity] you have the other side. When neither of these exists there is no middle part, and this is the middle-way."

And finally, a Ch'an moral from Seng ts'an:
"If you work on your mind, with your mind, how can you avoid an immense confusion?"

This last quote to me sums up my whole struggle/journey with the 6 SWORDS. It seems perhaps (imho) that we are all struggling with the deeper meaning of this card because we are trying to apply our minds in grasping with a concept, in which we are trying to escape using our minds in....
...even reading that last sentence back, I know it doesn't make sense, but perhaps that is the paradox behind this card.

Maybe the people in the boat are trying to sail away from the swords, which are planted in the front of their boat...?????????!?!???!?!?!?!!?!?!?!??!?!?!?

Confused? I am!!

Oh, and kilty, thanks for that link - interesting site. thanks heaps...

Strangely enough, I was doing a reading for my partner yesterday about an issue, and this card came up. I was surprised how easy the answer in context came to me for this card. I thank you all for the conversations and threads regarding this, because it seems to have helped.
Cheers!!!