blackadder
I just got this deck in the mail today and would love to explore it more. Anybody interested in a study group devoted to it?
Any interest for a Liber T study group?
Aeon418
Are you still interested in studying the Liber T deck?
room
Liber T/Thoth Comparison and Study
I traded for the Liber T some weeks ago and finally got around to doing a card-by-card comparison with the Thoth deck. I'd seen scans of the deck and knew I'd like it, but I didn't realize just how much is packed into the Liber T minors, which are very, very interesting.
I like the way the outer green border of the Liber T was designed with a central gradation that gives an effect of light shining from the number and symbols.
I confess quite readily that I don't care a whit for Golden Dawn esoterica. The symbolism as straight symbolism in artwork, and symbolism of human culture, mythology, and history **fascinates** me, so that's my approach to these things, rather than a deep look at the credo or a personal attachment to it.
I think it important when you first go through a deck to pick out the cards that jump out at you, so these are mine, and I've included scans.
I'd be lost without Scion's notes on this deck, they clear up most of the confusion or at least point in the right direction for further research. They are quite extensive, and I love their clarity, and I've referred to them several times here.
* The Star----one of my faves in the Thoth deck, but Andrea Serio has topped it in the Liber T. Apart from having more colour so that you can differentiate objects more easily, I like the figure of the woman better and I love the numerical symbolism he's included in the star. His simplification of the geometry and details makes this good. I like the cups on the Frieda Harris painting better though.
* The Devil----Again, the simplification in the detail works for me. I was also delighted to see that Serio included the eight I Ching trigrams in his painting. I would like to know more about that reasoning of his to include these, but I find it neat.
* 10 of Scepters/Oppression----I generally don't mind the pips in the Thoth, but this is one example where Serio's painting is much more effective. This really jumped out at me for its immediate translation of the word in my mind. The Liber T does not have the keywords that the Crowley deck has--that's something different. The keywords on the Thoth never bother me, but I kind of like the cards without them too.
Just checking Scion's notes on this. . . Armed certainly and evil, hostility. It sounds very much like the 5 of Cups below but it fits this card better.
*5 of Swords/Defeat----I miss the geometry in the Harris painting which has always looked like broken glass to me and gives the impression of something bad or jangly. The symbolism, perspective and figures in the Serio card are too good to overlook though, I liked it better, although presently puzzling in meaning.
Back to Scion's notes--the peacock and the woman in the background spinning, the man with his head cut off, and the man with a face of a vulture--always thought that was a bull's face. I don't know.
*4 of Spheres/Power----Another one where the straight translation and slight change in the perspective gave this more meaning for me. Still have to figure out the figures and symbolism but I like it better.
On checking Scion's notes on this I can see the female figure with the book and the tail of a fish ties in, the male figure has a goat's head which ties in with Capricorn, and he looks like he's gathering his money from a chest of gold which ties into the card meaning.
*5 of Cups/Disappointment----This is my favourite of the Cups fountains in the Harris/Crowley deck. It is SO Art Nouveau and the colours are wonderful. The lotus flowers look like they're weeping and no water flows in the fountains. I'm not quite sure what I think of the Serio painting. He's turned the negative space within the fountain tubing into butterfly wings. The fountain seems to take secondary place to the graphics above which seem heavy-handed and more violent than the word "disappointment" suggests.
I see from reading Scion's wonderful Handy Guide to the Decans that this rather violent symbolism is explained, although "disposition, sadness, evil will, hostility" still seem heavy terms measured against mere disappointment. I like the extra figures because they suggest a story and depth and I always like that, but I think Frieda's fountain is better somehow, although I can't say why. Part of it is the colour, and part of it is that the image doesn't override my reaction.
I notice that the Cups in the Liber T have a lot of explicit sexuality depicted . Not quite sure why--various kinds of love and happiness perhaps?
I traded for the Liber T some weeks ago and finally got around to doing a card-by-card comparison with the Thoth deck. I'd seen scans of the deck and knew I'd like it, but I didn't realize just how much is packed into the Liber T minors, which are very, very interesting.
I like the way the outer green border of the Liber T was designed with a central gradation that gives an effect of light shining from the number and symbols.
I confess quite readily that I don't care a whit for Golden Dawn esoterica. The symbolism as straight symbolism in artwork, and symbolism of human culture, mythology, and history **fascinates** me, so that's my approach to these things, rather than a deep look at the credo or a personal attachment to it.
I think it important when you first go through a deck to pick out the cards that jump out at you, so these are mine, and I've included scans.
I'd be lost without Scion's notes on this deck, they clear up most of the confusion or at least point in the right direction for further research. They are quite extensive, and I love their clarity, and I've referred to them several times here.
* The Star----one of my faves in the Thoth deck, but Andrea Serio has topped it in the Liber T. Apart from having more colour so that you can differentiate objects more easily, I like the figure of the woman better and I love the numerical symbolism he's included in the star. His simplification of the geometry and details makes this good. I like the cups on the Frieda Harris painting better though.
* The Devil----Again, the simplification in the detail works for me. I was also delighted to see that Serio included the eight I Ching trigrams in his painting. I would like to know more about that reasoning of his to include these, but I find it neat.
* 10 of Scepters/Oppression----I generally don't mind the pips in the Thoth, but this is one example where Serio's painting is much more effective. This really jumped out at me for its immediate translation of the word in my mind. The Liber T does not have the keywords that the Crowley deck has--that's something different. The keywords on the Thoth never bother me, but I kind of like the cards without them too.
Just checking Scion's notes on this. . . Armed certainly and evil, hostility. It sounds very much like the 5 of Cups below but it fits this card better.
*5 of Swords/Defeat----I miss the geometry in the Harris painting which has always looked like broken glass to me and gives the impression of something bad or jangly. The symbolism, perspective and figures in the Serio card are too good to overlook though, I liked it better, although presently puzzling in meaning.
Back to Scion's notes--the peacock and the woman in the background spinning, the man with his head cut off, and the man with a face of a vulture--always thought that was a bull's face. I don't know.
*4 of Spheres/Power----Another one where the straight translation and slight change in the perspective gave this more meaning for me. Still have to figure out the figures and symbolism but I like it better.
On checking Scion's notes on this I can see the female figure with the book and the tail of a fish ties in, the male figure has a goat's head which ties in with Capricorn, and he looks like he's gathering his money from a chest of gold which ties into the card meaning.
*5 of Cups/Disappointment----This is my favourite of the Cups fountains in the Harris/Crowley deck. It is SO Art Nouveau and the colours are wonderful. The lotus flowers look like they're weeping and no water flows in the fountains. I'm not quite sure what I think of the Serio painting. He's turned the negative space within the fountain tubing into butterfly wings. The fountain seems to take secondary place to the graphics above which seem heavy-handed and more violent than the word "disappointment" suggests.
I see from reading Scion's wonderful Handy Guide to the Decans that this rather violent symbolism is explained, although "disposition, sadness, evil will, hostility" still seem heavy terms measured against mere disappointment. I like the extra figures because they suggest a story and depth and I always like that, but I think Frieda's fountain is better somehow, although I can't say why. Part of it is the colour, and part of it is that the image doesn't override my reaction.
I notice that the Cups in the Liber T have a lot of explicit sexuality depicted . Not quite sure why--various kinds of love and happiness perhaps?
Mariana
I'm interested
I've been planning to buy one for some time, so maybe I should just get it some time this week. Studying it together with other people would probably be wise, as I'm only familiar with RWS symbolism.
I've been planning to buy one for some time, so maybe I should just get it some time this week. Studying it together with other people would probably be wise, as I'm only familiar with RWS symbolism.
wytchwood
I have the Liber T deck, and would certainly look in regularly on a study group. It is almost identical to the Thoth really, with illustrated minors, although it still keeps the Thoth appearance even in these. It is a nice Thoth re-do, though, and the artwork is very attractive, somewhat smoother in style than Lady Frieda Harris' paintings.
Zoe
Zoe
marybham
Liber T study
Hi,
Saw this thread with interest as Scion - an Aeclectic member - got my attention with this deck at the New York Readers Studio last month.
He's got some study notes on it too so I've dropped him a quick email suggesting he may want to come on over to this thread and join in.
Have fun, I'll be back . . . studying an online Thoth course at the moment but I just know it will lead me back here again
Cheers,
Mary
Hi,
Saw this thread with interest as Scion - an Aeclectic member - got my attention with this deck at the New York Readers Studio last month.
He's got some study notes on it too so I've dropped him a quick email suggesting he may want to come on over to this thread and join in.
Have fun, I'll be back . . . studying an online Thoth course at the moment but I just know it will lead me back here again
Cheers,
Mary
Mariana
I've just bought my copy today.
Scion
I'm always game to talk about the Liber T!
How many people have an interest? I feel like the 2s through 10s are the cards that are the most distinct and have the least supporting material (since they diverge the most adamantly from Harris). Anyone else have a thought about a plan of attack?
Scion
How many people have an interest? I feel like the 2s through 10s are the cards that are the most distinct and have the least supporting material (since they diverge the most adamantly from Harris). Anyone else have a thought about a plan of attack?
Scion
Mariana
If you're counting interested people: here is one. But I don't have a background in Thoth yet. Actually after a lot of doubting I bought the Liber T instead, because I like the artwork so much more. So for me, the Liber T is an introduction to the Thoth as well as an introduction to these extra decan minors. But if most people are familiar with the Thoth, I can just read the study group on that deck and join you for a discussion of the differences.
room
Scion said:
That's a great plan of attack Scion. I would like to go at it that way, for the reasons you stated.
