What remains: 5 of cups vs 7 of swords

I drew these two cards recently and in studying their imagery side by side, one aspect common to both cards kept pulling me back. In the 5 of cups, the figure in the card has his/her back turned, ignoring the 2 cups standing behind him/her. In the 7 of swords, the main character makes off with 5 swords and leaves behind two. I guess my question is that I'd like to discuss the significance of what's left behind in each card? Can any connection be made at all with this aspect when these cards fall beside each other? I keep getting this niggling feeling that THAT'S what I need to pay attention to with regard to the question I asked, and yet I can't seem to make the proper connection...visually I can clearly see what the two cards have in common, yet intuitively I can't put my finger on it..any suggestions?

I dunno, but . . .

I used to be curious about why the suit symbols on the RWS minors were grouped the way they were. Why, for example, was the 8 cups divided into 5 cups and 3 cups instead of 4 cups and 4 cups as it is in TdM? My on-going theory is that it has something to do with AE Waite's ideas about the metaphysical properties of numbers. But I'm too lazy to try to verify this notion.

Another theory, but one I don't entertain seriously, is that it's all aesthetics: a 5 and 2 grouping looks better than a 4 and 3 grouping, etc.

I've never checked RWS against the Thoth according to numerical grouping. That might be an idea.

I think the difference is conscious awareness, marked by the background colour of the cards. The figure in the seven of swords knows what he is leaving behind, he is acutely aware of what he is doing and the card is associated with strategy among other things.

The figure in the Five is unaware of what is left behind because they are so berift by what they have lost. There is hope in this card because once they turn around they will see that there is still something left, just not what they wanted.

Hi OQ. That's a fascinating. I'd never really thought about the two cards that way before. I think part of the difference is the intention of the figure in the card and what the cards shows (I've got the RWS type of card in mind). In the 5 of Cups, the two cups are not really being purposely left behind; rather, they are forgotten or not seen. They are left behind through unknowing or not seeing or ignorance. The figure is concentrating on what is lost, but not all is lost.

It seems like in the 7 of Swords, the figure is taking something (not lamenting) and knows what he has left behind. He either doesn't want what is lelft behind, can't take it all, or will come back for it (unfinished business).

I'd say that in both cases, however, there is the sense that something exists that can call a person back or redirect a person's attention. I really see (but this just may be me) the remaining 2 cups as a way to move forward--perhaps a remainder (for example, the good memories from a broken relationship), or perhaps the elements that can be used to start something new (not all is lost). On the other hand, I can see the two swords as something that is nagging or needs to be completed, perhaps a sense of not having gotten what one feels one deserves. I suppose it could even show a sense of satisfaction--I got mine, even though there'e more where it came from.

Yes the two cards show something left over possibly pulling us in a particular direction, but different kinds of pulls.

If these two cards are coming up together, it may be suggesting that you (or the querent) needs to look at unfinished business and see what is really there and what's being missed, instead of looking at what has been spilled or lost.

greycats said:

Why, for example, was the 8 cups divided into 5 cups and 3 cups instead of 4 cups and 4 cups as it is in TdM?

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Just had to chime in on this one. I like the way this card looks. I think the cups are stacked as they are because it's supposed to be a stack of 4 cups on top of 5 cups--the figure is going to look for the ninth cup, or perhaps he actually has the missing cup with him and is on a journey to fill it.

Nuncle

All is not lost!

obsidian_queen said:

In the 5 of cups, the figure in the card has his/her back turned, ignoring the 2 cups standing behind him/her. In the 7 of swords, the main character makes off with 5 swords and leaves behind two.

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That's a really interesting observation, and I do think that there is a similarity. I think that both cards indicate that not all is lost. In this respect, "2" is significant.

2, after all, is a number signifying balance. Which is a very powerful thing in cards, like these, which signify a time of an imbalance and chaos. While not the most stable (3 and 4 are more stable), 2's suggest a moment of peace, equality, unity, and the possiblity of growth (Man + Woman = Child, Thesis + AntiThesis = synthesis).

So here we have two terrible moments, everything in chaos, unsettled and shifting--yet if we look closely we'll see that there is still a way to find balance and equlibrium. Even enough to develop into more (2 into 3) if you put your mind and heart into what you've still got.

The RW deck is not considered a happy deck, and a lot of the cards are downbeat. But I think your observation shows that even in cards showing a very bad situation, there is the suggestion that not all is lost or hopeless. In both cases, what we fear is gone is not totally gone. The man in the 5/cups need only stop focusing on his regrets to realize that he has two cups remaining.

Likewise, the 7/Swords suggests that if you dwell too much on what's been stolen from you, you'll miss what the thief forgot to take, whatever is still there and still yours. The thief did not leave you completely unarmed and vulnerable. You still have weapons and ways of protecting yourself. But if you obsess on what's gone, you won't see them.

Really good call O.Q. Very sharp observation.

Thirteen said:

.... even in cards showing a very bad situation, there is the suggestion that not all is lost or hopeless. In both cases, what we fear is gone is not totally gone. The man in the 5/cups need only stop focusing on his regrets to realize that he has two cups remaining.

Likewise, the 7/Swords suggests that if you dwell too much on what's been stolen from you, you'll miss what the thief forgot to take, whatever is still there and still yours. The thief did not leave you completely unarmed and vulnerable. You still have weapons and ways of protecting yourself. But if you obsess on what's gone, you won't see them.

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Once again Thirteen helps me solve the puzzle…this is like a bit of a *DUH!!*moment for me, because it makes such obvious sense! NOW I can actually place this in context with the reading I was doing. The reading itself was concerning a querent who’d recently come out of a long term relationship, and unexpectedly found himself attracted to someone new in a short space of time. He basically wanted to know the emotional consequences of getting involved with this new woman, because, although she is clearly interested, understandably, he’s got reservations. The cards I pulled for him were; 3 / Wands --> 5/Cups -->7 Swords. I put the arrow thingies in between cards to imply that I kind of read like a sentence, and try to make the cards' energies flow into each other. Clearly he’s not over his past relationship, as an immediate observation will show. But what was bugging me were those 2 items behind each figure in those two cards. Is it safe to tell him that there’s a chance for a good relationship with this new person, but strongly caution him to take his time and heal first? The 5 of cups = regrets to me and somehow I almost immediately felt "something's not finished here" when I saw the 7 of swords. The 3 of wands gives me a sense of a good outlook on the surface, but when it really comes down to having a healthy, lasting relationship, I feel that if he doesn’t deal with his grief properly she’ll end up being a *rebound* of sorts and he’ll miss out on what she actually has to offer him. What do you guys think?