5 of pentacles

willowfox

Solitaire* said:
In the times these cards portray, kissing the hand most certainly was an intimate gesture. Even up to the present day, it can be done in an intimate relationship in some instances.

"The gesture was common in European upper class throughout the 18th and 19th century. It started to disappear in the 20th century. It is very uncommon today in Northern European contries. In its modern form, a man kissing the hand of a woman, the hand-kiss originated in the Spanish court ceremonies of the 17th/18th century and became common practice in European upper class in the 18th and 19th century. The gesture probably originated as a formal submission or plead of allegiance of man to man. The man would show his submission by kissing the signet ring (a form of seal worn as a jewelry ring), the symbol of authority of the dominant person."

Sorry, but I don't see it as an intimate gesture. Would you consider kissing the popes hand an intimate gesture as well?
 

casia

willowfox said:
"The gesture was common in European upper class throughout the 18th and 19th century. It started to disappear in the 20th century. It is very uncommon today in Northern European contries. In its modern form, a man kissing the hand of a woman, the hand-kiss originated in the Spanish court ceremonies of the 17th/18th century and became common practice in European upper class in the 18th and 19th century. The gesture probably originated as a formal submission or plead of allegiance of man to man. The man would show his submission by kissing the signet ring (a form of seal worn as a jewelry ring), the symbol of authority of the dominant person."

Sorry, but I don't see it as an intimate gesture. Would you consider kissing the popes hand an intimate gesture as well?



So............ what does this "kissing the hand gesture" mean in the middle of a crisis or a catastrophe????
 

WaterSong

One feeling I often get with this card is the feeling of lack of warmth....no comfort, it feels like the poor child looking at the christmas window full of goods and toys he/she cannot have....

This card often gives me the message of the "being left out" of something or of a deep, inner feeling of lack and deprivation...not necessarily it is material deprivation, you can have financial well being and still feel "poor" inside, emotionally and spiritually....there is yearning here for something more fullfilling, of a spiritual nature....

In a relationship this can often mean a lack of connection and the fact that being together physically not necessarily means sharing a meaninful, satisfying connection and bond....but it could also come to signal the determination to overcome a very difficult moment, sorrounded by cards that would indicate so...

xoxoxo
magenta
 

bec

I'd say kissing a hand and what it means now a days would depend on world geography and local habits, traditions and cultures. Where I come from it would be a sign of gratification, humility ... and on the other side of the fence a mans attempt to show "old fashioned chivalry" if he does not know how to approach a woman :) or of course just play a jester for some reason ...


chivalry is dead in my part of the world - unfortunately
 

willowfox

casia said:
So............ what does this "kissing the hand gesture" mean in the middle of a crisis or a catastrophe????

As far as I can see it has nothing to do with the situation, as kissing of the hand was a matter of being polite and showing respect. As I have never seen this in any other tarot deck, I have no idea what the artist had in mind by putting this into the picture. If the person is kissing the hand out of thanks, then what is he thanking her for, it just doesn't make sense, well, to me anyway. Perhaps, someone else can see the connection between poverty and showing respect.
 

WaterSong

could it be that the artist that included the "kissing of the hand" in the 5 of pentacles that is mentioned in this thread( I have never seen it) did it to imply the concept of "damisel on distress" sort of situation?

Like being there for someone in a moment of distress....the kissing of the hand was very common in certain countries of Europe( Italy,Spain) and when done on the ladies it was an act of gallantry, like a knight pledging to its lady...the ladies always seen as someone delicate and in need of protection.

It could be that he included that image to suggest someone going through a rough patch and in need of a ...helping hand or gesture?
Like a totally generous, noble gesture of help and solidarity...during those 5 of pentacles moments it sure would make a difference...

I also feel, personally, that we should not overfocus on the "kissing hand" detail, because it seems to pertain to that one card of that one deck...in most decks the 5 of pentacles actually shows a mother and a child or two people in obvious distress, walking in the snow wearing rags....( at least the RW tradition)

xoxooxoxo
magenta
 

magpie9

Angeles Arrien give the core meaning of 5 Pents as "worry and fear of loss'. This fits in very well in a relationship reading, when one (or both) partners are unsure about the other, for whatever reason. Crowley takes it a step further, saying that the economic system has broken down and there is no action that can effect the issue. In a relationship reading, I could see this as a case of reciprocity no longer working. The partners are no longer taking care of each other, they are not working together for the good of themselves as a unit. They may not be seeing a future together. One may feel that s/he "does everything" and the other is along for the ride.
In a cups-heavy relationship reading, I would see the 5 pents as being the fear or worry or sense of inpending loss on an emotional level, in a situation in which no real action had taken place as yet.
 

balenciaga

5 P: Mistress Card

The Kissing of the Hand motif probably comes from one of the traditional interp of this card: Mistress. She is the woman "left out" of the security of marriage.
 

casia

magpie9 said:
Angeles Arrien give the core meaning of 5 Pents as "worry and fear of loss'. This fits in very well in a relationship reading, when one (or both) partners are unsure about the other, for whatever reason. Crowley takes it a step further, saying that the economic system has broken down and there is no action that can effect the issue. In a relationship reading, I could see this as a case of reciprocity no longer working. The partners are no longer taking care of each other, they are not working together for the good of themselves as a unit. They may not be seeing a future together. One may feel that s/he "does everything" and the other is along for the ride.
In a cups-heavy relationship reading, I would see the 5 pents as being the fear or worry or sense of inpending loss on an emotional level, in a situation in which no real action had taken place as yet.

Magpie9

I think this is it..... a relationship that seems to have no future together, the couple is just going through the movements ( "kissing of the hand"). One of the parties does everything and the other one is just there for the ride.... Yeah!!! that kind of sounds like this reading.
 

casia

balenciaga said:
The Kissing of the Hand motif probably comes from one of the traditional interp of this card: Mistress. She is the woman "left out" of the security of marriage.


Balenciaga

And then this makes sense too, the woman "left out", she is just there waiting for something to happen in her favor......


Thank you all for your feedback, I`ve opened some windows here to see things differently.....Thanks again...