3 - The Empress

Just thought I'd add a bit from the glorious book of Revelations from the Bible, which does speak of many images we now find in the Tarot... And I just read in Mari-Hoshizaki's thread on Tarot as Stage Scenes that Waite was a Christian mystic, so it makes sense that he used concepts from the Bible...

"A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth." - Revelations 12: 1-2

It is quite often that there are references to the book of Revelations in the RWS deck... The World card, the Strength card (Babylon and the Beast, shown more 'accurately' in the Thoth deck).

In the book of Revelations, the woman 'clothed with the sun'etc gives birth to a male child, who is taken up to the throne of God by God himself. Was this supposed to be Jesus Christ? It doesn't say for certain whether or not it is Jesus in the book of Revelations, but I'm assuming it is.

Kiama

Tis about 8 hours after I posted the last post in this thread, and have just realised that Waite must have been reading Eliphas Levi's 'The Occult Agreement of the Two Testaments', where Levi points out the references of the newly created occult-Tarot (Major Arcana only) in the Bible.

Kiama

i wonder if the book of mormon can be incorperated here too. although that could be extreme. just think of the possibilites.

Firemaiden brings up an excellent point regarding the more recent interpretation of the Empress as Demeter. The jump from co-ruler of an empire to grain goddess makes no sense to me, nor can I find any evidence of a connection based on early tarot iconography. Fertility is not visually depicted in the Marseilles deck, nor the Pierpont Morgan deck, and in the Cary-Yale Visconti BOTH Emperor and Empress are depicted with their children. Unlike jmd, I see the change from female authority figure to 'fertility' figure as a HUGE jump, and I question the basis of the change. I have found this a real problem in interpreting the card, as it strays so far from the original meaning, and I believe loses some of the power of the original intent.

littleneptune said:

Firemaiden brings up an excellent point regarding the more recent interpretation of the Empress as Demeter. The jump from co-ruler of an empire to grain goddess makes no sense to me, nor can I find any evidence of a connection based on early tarot iconography. Fertility is not visually depicted in the Marseilles deck, nor the Pierpont Morgan deck, and in the Cary-Yale Visconti BOTH Emperor and Empress are depicted with their children. Unlike jmd, I see the change from female authority figure to 'fertility' figure as a HUGE jump, and I question the basis of the change. I have found this a real problem in interpreting the card, as it strays so far from the original meaning, and I believe loses some of the power of the original intent.

Click to expand...

That last statement is very important. Given the environment of the late 19th Century and the early 20th, Women (in teh U.S. at least)were not seen in authority very much except in a few places (Wyoming and Idaho are the only places i can think of before 1900). Prohobited from owning land, voting and political authority(once again Wyoming was the first to change this), women were removed from their abilities to wield power like an empress but they were the ones to farm and till as well as to sew, cook and clean(all of which are represnted here). The loss of the original intention may or may not be on purpose but it is a reflection of how women have been seen (and still are) by a male dominated world. to be fair though, the Emporer seems void of several quailties that his companion can accomidate.

Paradoxx--I think you have hit the nail right on the head! Do we really want to CONTINUE this oppressive (and inaccurate) trend? To think that our society has actually intellectually REGRESSED since the 15th Century is unbelievable and truly depressing! I'm not going to follow this dysfunctional occult system!

Also (quote): "the Emporer seems void of several quailties that his companion can accomidate". This problem does not occur if you interpret the Empress and Emperor as co-rulers of the empire (and co-rulers of the family) as was portrayed in the original Cary-Yale Visconti tarot. Emperors, like good fathers and bosses, must be kind and caring. Otherwise they are simply dictators and tyrants. I'm not going to follow an occult system that encourages a dictator leader (or father)! This is an insult to loving fathers and family men everywhere.

I think the original tarot depiction of the Empress (and Emperor) had it right. Authority figure, responsible leader, kind parent.

Here is my interpretation of the card:

In a Tarot reading, The Empress represents endless positivity. There may a talent that you have, or a new creative venture on the horizon, or a relationship that has crossed the next stage and developed into something more (a marriage, a new relationship). Themes of fertility can also call attention to pregnancy–the start of new life. This Tarot card represents pure emotion and creativity–untainted and free flowing.

The true lesson, is to remember that there are cycles to all of these stages, and they all need balance. Without balance, there is lack of control. One must learn to thrive at the right times, and one must also learn to let go and move on as well.

I am using the Universal Waite Tarot deck, so I didn't put the imagery/symbols in this post (that's on my bog).

However, I do want to participate in the threads in this study group since the parallel themes are similar. There isn't a separate Study Group for the Universal Waite and it was suggested that I follow along with this group as I start out.