Rider-Waite and Thoth - confused!

LND

what is the difference? the names of the cards and styles of the art? or are the meanings different too?

for example, does The World card have the same meaning as The Universe?

thanks!
 

Grigori

The RWS and the Thoth have a lot in common. They are both based on the Golden Dawn deck, so share a similar structure and history. RWS however was intended for public consumption and the Golden Dawn deck at that time was a secret deck, so a lot of the similarities have been obscured.

The Thoth blabbed all the secrets, and also changed the deck significantly to fit in with the philosophy of Thelema and its mythology.

The cards are quite similar in a lot of ways and share a lot of meanings. But there are also areas where they are quite different to each other. e.g. in the Thoth the Hanged Man is a more negative card than the RWS, because the idea of self sacrifice is contrary to the ideas of Thelema, but complimentary to the more Christian RWS. The World card and the Universe are quite similar in a lot of ways, but also there are differences that might affect a reading. Judgement and Aeon are very different, though may mean the same thing in a reading sometimes. It depends how you read them I guess.

You can learn more about each deck by comparing them to each other. Its a good way to study the difference I think :)
 

LND

similia said:
The RWS and the Thoth have a lot in common. They are both based on the Golden Dawn deck, so share a similar structure and history. RWS however was intended for public consumption and the Golden Dawn deck at that time was a secret deck, so a lot of the similarities have been obscured.

The Thoth blabbed all the secrets, and also changed the deck significantly to fit in with the philosophy of Thelema and its mythology.

The cards are quite similar in a lot of ways and share a lot of meanings. But there are also areas where they are quite different to each other. e.g. in the Thoth the Hanged Man is a more negative card than the RWS, because the idea of self sacrifice is contrary to the ideas of Thelema, but complimentary to the more Christian RWS. The World card and the Hanged Man are quite similar in a lot of ways, but also there are differences that might affect a reading. Judgement and Aeon are very different, though may mean the same thing in a reading sometimes. It depends how you read them I guess.

You can learn more about each deck by comparing them to each other. Its a good way to study the difference I think :)
Click to expand...


thanks! that cleared up my question, i think i got the idea down :)
 

abrxs93

Thoth/Waite/Golden Dawn

It may also be a good idea to get a pack of the Golden Dawn Tarot
by Robert Wang/Israel Regardie which is a copy of the cards
Golden Dawn initiates actually had to hand-paint, as this is the
deck Crowley and Waite both originally worked from. The initial
copy was painted by Moina Mathers, wife of SL McGregor Mathers and
initiates swore an oath not to reveal this deck to non initiates.

From the GD deck you can see also how this deck has sprung from
the Tarot of Marseilles with qabalistic/magical symbolism added
from the Golden Dawn's mysterious Book T.

What I find odd is the 10 of pentacles in the GD deck. The pentacles
are not in the shape of the Tree of Life but both Waite and Crowley
have them in this shape, in fact it is the only openly 'qabalistic' aspect
in the Waite deck.
 

Grigori

abrxs93 said:
It may also be a good idea to get a pack of the Golden Dawn Tarot
by Robert Wang/Israel Regardie which is a copy of the cards
Golden Dawn initiates actually had to hand-paint, as this is the
deck Crowley and Waite both originally worked from. The initial
copy was painted by Moina Mathers, wife of SL McGregor Mathers and
initiates swore an oath not to reveal this deck to non initiates.
Click to expand...

Shame its such an ugly deck though :( I wish someone would publish really attractive GD deck. Rif sent me links a while back to some forthcoming decks that look much more promising.
http://blog.nickfarrell.info/2009/03/new-tarot-cards.html
http://tarotart.wordpress.com/

abrxs93 is right though, to really understand the similarities and differences it would pay to study the GD deck they are both based on. The Cicero's have an interesting version that is available, though hard to find at the moment.
http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/golden-dawn-magical/index.shtml


abrxs93 said:
The pentacles are not in the shape of the Tree of
Life but both Waite and Crowley have them in this shape, in fact it is the only openly 'qabalistic' aspect in the Waite deck.
Click to expand...

Nah there is lots more qabalah in the Waite deck, its just slightly more hidden. Check out the curtain in the HighPriestess and the layout of the Temperance card are two clear examples.
 

northsea

Crowley transposed the Star and the Emperor, so that, on the qabbalastic tree of life, the Thoth Emperor corresponds to the Hebrew letter tzaddi, and the Thoth Star to heh.
 
4 - The Emperor RWS Six of Pentacles