Mary Greer says Waite 'Fool' is a girl - Tarot Mirrors

Grigori

I've always thought of gender as non-specific and unimportant in the Fool. I s'pose I refer to the Fool as "he" more often, perhaps due to the more frequent occurrence of that identification, or because of personal preference. I quite like the distinctly female Fool in the Golden Tarot though, its a favorite card in the deck for me.

Truth is though; either male or female, I'd not see the Fool any differently. So I suspect it doesn't matter much :)
 

Teheuti

I received a PM that I might want to add my own perspective to this discussion. I'm the author of this book. My original purpose is well served by people questioning the sex/gender of a card.

I stated in my introduction under the heading "Terminology" that,
"In recognition of my theme of mirror images, I have chosen to use feminine pronouns as generic terms. . . . Perhaps by reflecting on this opposite maneuver you will begin to find a way to give birth to new understandings of what it means to be human" (p. 7).
I had discovered that far too many books—especially history, anthropology and sociology texts written before 1970—when using the so-called generic "he" to refer to humans, discussed things that just didn't make sense when talking about women. The generic he is all-too-often male-centric. This could only be discovered when changing all the hes to shes and realizing that the resulting statements were not true. Using 'he or she' or 's/he' all the time was awkward and I didn't like the generic 'they' when referring to an individual. Plus, there's the fact that 80% or more of my readers were women. Ultimately I hope we can transcend such things, but this book was written at a pivotal transitional time in which people were actively questioning such generic references and trying to find a way around them. I was being more explorative than politically-correct.

Although I examined Papus's organizational scheme for the Majors and used the RWS deck for a majority of the illustrations, this book is actually about what the cards reference in our own being rather than about what a particular tarot author/deck creator said about his or her deck.

In Tarot Mirrors I wasn't just referencing the RWS deck, but tarot in its broadest sense. I proposed that the Fool card represents "your spirit-self" (p. 152)—which could be male or female.

On page 17, in a section headed "The Fool and Her Mirror," I wrote,
"The capricious nature of the mirror reminds you that the tarot, as with all games of life, is to be played. Taking it too seriously courts the danger of ego inflation or archetype identification."
Basically, I wanted people to question their assumptions.

Also, in the heading "The Fool and Her Mirror," I was pointing to a card illustrated on page 18 which I described as "A 15th century Austrian tarot deck [it was erroneously called tarot in my source] features a Fool card inscribed as 'Female joker/Looking at her grinning idiot's face in the mirror.'"

Thank you Chiska and Bernice for your largely correct suppositions:
I wonder if she is referring to the Fool as a reflection of herself?
The 'journey' is undertaken by individals, of all and any gender.
And Freddie, although this is not exactly the case, I see it as an option:
I wondered if this book was offering a revision of the Fool's journey as being primarily feminine.

And fyreflye you wrote:
Pixie draws someone, like herself, more sexually ambiguous.
Smith's biographer, Melinda Boyd-Parsons, has done a great job of tracking down photographs and drawings of the many female friends of Smith who acted in plays dressed as men (knights, etc.) and who probably served as models for many of the cards. One of the strengths of the RWS deck, to me, is the balance of male and female figures (count them) and the high number of androgynous-looking people.

Mostly I wanted to shake up people's assumptions and have them question and propose exactly the range of things that all of you have come up with here.

Thanks.

Mary K. Greer
 

gregory

Freddie said:
The book is quite good in case anyone is wondering.
So are many of her other books - I'd say rather more than "quite good", myself. (I would say all are but I haven't read all of them, so I COULD be wrong :D)
 

Teheuti

Gregory - I'm thrilled you like this book. For a long time it was my favorite and I feel it is my most 'philosophical.'

Mary
 

gregory

Teheuti said:
Gregory - I'm thrilled you like this book. For a long time it was my favorite and I feel it is my most 'philosophical.'

Mary
Ahem. I like 21 Ways far and away the best, if you want to take that back now... :D
 

Teheuti

gregory said:
Ahem. I like 21 Ways far and away the best, if you want to take that back now... :D
21 Ways to Read a Tarot Card is my current favorite, too, so I'm happy to hear this. I wouldn't want all of my books to sound alike.
 

Freddie

Thank you for your lovely reply Mary. I understand the pronoun dilemma and I agree that for far too long women have been referred to with pronouns that have stripped them of their power. I have referred to the whole Tarot pack as 'my Lady' many times, so why not individual cards. I guess I felt like the book was shutting 'The Secret Garden' gate on the menfolk, however I was wrong and further reading of it proved that.

I have learned so much from 'Mirrors' that I have asked my wife for your 'Tarot Courts' book for my birthday. Gregory I'll put '21 Ways' on the list. I love the workbook format and doing the exercises have made the spiritual journey of your book more enjoyable and personal.

May I ask one question? I am using my two favourite decks with your book, Albano Waite and Oswald Wirth (78 US games version). Starting on pg. 199 there are 'special' cards that are deducted by adding numbers up, due to the famous Golden Dawn Trump switch, do the personal cards etc. apply to TDM major arcana numbering as well? My plan is to use this system with people I read for, so I plan to use the more known/popular Waite deck/images for this so they could research more deeply the cards on their own. I use both decks in my readings, each for different spreads/insight.


Thank you,

Freddie

p.s.: I love and use that 'Fate' magazine 'Wheel of Fortune' spread you shared on your website. I used it mixed together with G Berti's 'Tree, Trunk and leaves' spread in the lo Scarabeo 'Visconti Tarot' book (another good book Gregory suggested to me) and clients seem satisfied with the information the spread provides.
 

Cerulean

I remember the he/she pronoun discussions

Long time ago I remember "print" journalism classes and the creative feature writers were wondering about gender references--they even alternated theorectical examples between he and she to get a one-of-each flavor. Student journalist as reporters would try to get a sample of different ages and genders and try to show a balanced spectrum. We were reading 197O's and 198O's texts and samples, so the gender alternation made editing or writing tricky.

I happened on Tarot Mirrors long after that, hardly noticed the gender changes--I thought it was the author creative choice reflecting the time. In general I treat the generic Majors descriptions by an author as guide. When I lay out the cards, if the seeker finds the Fool represents themselves, their identification is regardless of gender.

It is funny to me that I am particular about art linework, but prefer a softer poetic take about language. Sometimes Victorian English translations and expression bother me until I remember language can reflect the times--and the softer focus helps one take in the whole impression and picture.

Is this a vintage language look at the Fool in history? Interesting to me.

Cerulean
 

Teheuti

Freddie said:
I am using my two favourite decks with your book, Albano Waite and Oswald Wirth (78 US games version). Starting on pg. 199 there are 'special' cards that are deducted by adding numbers up, due to the famous Golden Dawn Trump switch, do the personal cards etc. apply to TDM major arcana numbering as well?


The Lifetime and Year Cards mentioned in an appendix on page 199 are discussed thoroughly in Tarot Constellations (soon to be revised) and Tarot for Your Self. You can use the TdM numbering but then you need to conceptualize two of the "constellations" (number patterns) slightly differently. Both Strength and Justice are virtues and both refer to "Law" - Strength is Natural Law and Justice is Human Law.

In the Star System and Circles of Mind discussed in the book both cards belong to the same sets, such that they reflect each other.

Just make adjustments so that they work for your preferred deck and numbering system. The more you use it, the more you will develop your own understanding of how each constellation functions in people.

I love and use that 'Fate' magazine 'Wheel of Fortune' spread you shared on your website. I used it mixed together with G Berti's 'Tree, Trunk and leaves' spread in the lo Scarabeo 'Visconti Tarot' book.
I'll have to look up Berti's spread. I'm not familiar with it.
 

nisaba

Freddie said:
It is well known Mary Greer is a Tarot expert. I recently bought my first book by her called 'Tarot Mirrors' and in the book she refers to 'The Fool' as 'she' .....I wouldn't call 'The Star' 'he'. Waite says he is a young man so who is correct?

Was Waite wrong about 'The Fool' card design?
It's taken me a while to find this thread.

In this original post, it sounds as if you expect one person to be "wrong" and another person to be "right". Tarot doesn't necessarily work that way. Neither of them originated Tarot - the earliest extant Tarot cards are from the 1400s. Both of them have their own interpretation on the archetypes, and "right" and "wrong" really doesn't apply here.

I try, whenever I'm conscious during my speech, to say "she" rather than "he" during conversation for individuals of unknown gender or groups like mankind ("man is a political animal - he likes to fight") merely to come a tiny way to redressing imbalance over the centuries. That's my personal choice.

I also personally think that all Tarot cards are dealing with symbols, archetypes, energies, and trying to portray them, rather than portraying individuals. Energies may be more commonly associated with one gender than another, but they are essentially sexless. The portrayal of a given card as a given gender is an example of artistic convention.