Waite's inaccuracies?

tarobones

Joan and Thirteen

I hope you enjoy the learntarot.com link. It is a great place to begin. Also good is Aeclectic Tarot's own course by Thirteen. Just click the link "learn" in the upper right hand corner of the webpage. They are both very good, with a lot of information and wisdom for us beginners. Enjoy your tarot journey. BB, Michael
 

Teheuti

Agreed - Pictorial Key has many inaccuracies.
Agreed - Waite is pedantic, bombastic, annoying and a lot of other things,

OTOH, he's also written an excellent book that's worth going back to - again and again. There's far more to it than is apparent on the surface. His history is the most accurate of the time - indeed more accurate than most books prior to Dummett and Kaplan. He's studied and attempted to integrate a range of "traditional" tarot interpretations. He seemingly obfuscates many things but, when examined, it's obvious that in his section on the Secret Tradition (his main interest), he takes you as far as words can go and after that only mystical experience will suffice. He values (and recommends) intuition when reading the cards. He only hints at the mystical and magical meanings of the symbols but if you follow these up in his other books and in Golden Dawn magical sources you will find that he was very knowledgeable and precise. For all that it seems a simple book, it demands a sophisticated and dedicated reader.

On TarotL we spent a month or two going line-by-line through Part II: "The Doctrine Behind the Veil" and I think everyone involved in the discussion ended up with a deep appreciation for what he was actually conveying. It helps to look up his terms in a good 19th c. British dictionary and in his books on the Grail, Freemasonry, the Rosicrucians, Alchemy and mysticism. Plus it doesn't hurt to read his translations of Eliphas Lévi, too.

On a slightly different track, it turns out that he did have specific stories and sources for the Minor Arcana. I explain all this in an article in Llewellyn's Tarot Reader 2006 (just out). The key can be found in his statement about the Ace of Cups - "It is an intimation of that which may lie behind the Lesser Arcana." The same year as the deck was published his first book on the Holy Grail also came out - "The Hidden Church of the Holy Graal" - duh! Yep, it's all in there! He summarizes the main Grail myths, which you will find in the suits. Pentacles goes beyond this, though, to concentrate on a Grail descendent - Freemasonry (the parallels have been noted by many plus I found several more). Anyway, read the article and you might find Waite of more interest than you thought.

Mary
 

tarotbear

It is quite possible that it is one of the 'blinds' that so many say are within the book - that the reason for the fifth stream would only be revealed to those who were true students and not the common man.
 

dream mage

Intentional Inaccuracies

Once, I asked my husband (the High Priest.. well former High Priest of his former coven) ... why Waite stated the swords represented air and the wands represented fire... when Wicca states the reverse... but BOTH were modeled after The Golden Dawn's teachings.

My husband... after three weeks of researching... handed me a book. The author had done some research on the same question... she and deduced this:

Waite, as a member of the Golden Dawn.. was sworn to secrecy. Crowley, and Smith were also members. By creating this tarot deck and revealing the Golden Dawn's elemental symbolism, they were breaking this vow. In order to release the tarot deck, and yet still be obeying their oath... certain interpretations had to be muddled... even denied.
How ever, wicca was stylied after their rituals, so the ritual symbolism is probably the accurate one... ... . .
(above has been paraphrased)

On that note... Could it be that maybe.. just maybe, Waite isn't being forgetful.... just secretive?
 

Teheuti

dream mage said:
Once, I asked my husband (the High Priest.. well former High Priest of his former coven) ... why Waite stated the swords represented air and the wands represented fire... <snip>
wicca was stylied after their [GD] rituals, so the ritual symbolism is probably the accurate one... ... . .
maybe, Waite isn't being forgetful.... just secretive?
Swords are Air and Wands are Fire in the Golden Dawn system - check any book on Golden Dawn tarot (especially the GD manuscript "Book T" and the cipher manuscripts) as well as any Golden Dawn deck.

The story I heard was that Gardner asked Crowley for help in constructing his rituals. How well they personally knew each other (beyond the level of rare correspondence) is still up for historical debate. Anyway, Crowley was known as a great trickster and there is a tale going around that he told Gardner the wrong attributes just to see how far Gardner would take it. The imagery goes back to the Sword plunged into the Cup as Fire and Water. This may reference the Arthurian legend of Excalibur and the Lady of the Lake. As far as I'm concerned it saves Gardnerian Wicca from being just another GD knock-off.

Mary
 

Teheuti

BTW, I'm up for debating the value of PKT. No one has to agree with me and I'd love to see examples of where the greatest problems lie for people.
 

Parzival

Waite's Inaccuracies ?

Waite could be pedantic, pompous, verbose, evasive, condescending, contradictory. (Like some Shakespeare professors.) Yet his descriptive meditations on the Trumps Major are lyrical, insightful, profound. I like the layout of the American pirated edition ( Chicago, de Laurence, 1918), with his meditations on left pages and the Trumps Major on right pages. "The Star" is illuminating. His comments on the lesser arcana are less than helpful to me, on the whole. The images are Grail-based, and The Ace of Cups pictures the Mystery and "House of the true heart," to cite Waite's mysterious divinatory phrase. Iconic, magical, alive with Life. The Iconic Image, I mean.
 

tarotbear

Draegyn said:
What is a "Yod"?

A Yod is about 36 inches in length...

A yod is that little leafy-looking thingie in theTower, Moon, and Ace of Wands cards that is actually a Hebrew letter symbolizing the hands of man - according to Eden Gray. They are also known as 'drops of light.' It betokens power, skill and dexterity, also the descent of the Life Force from above into the conditions of material exsitance.

Anyone have anything else?