New Orleans Voodoo Tarot, The Eights

Grip Dellabonte

I LOVE your box! What are you talking about?! It was my inspiration! And my first introduction to Agwe. Now I'm wearing a smiley face because you like my box.

I have to re-read your posts but somewhere you mentioned the eights were like the threes. No kidding! I completely agree with you. I'm glad I'm not alone in feeling that way. I thought, by looking at the pictures, that they were going to be easy. They really stumped me.

"So in divination, it might be some kind of success, but not something that a person can hold onto for very long. In the picture, the woman clings on. Are we perhaps holding on to something that we can not keep .. or should not keep? Stick too long and we might become burnt."
I like how you worded this, Dr. Ruth. I can see that. She does look like she's clinging to it. That would be an important observation in a reading.

I can't wait til you get to the other two cards - I almost wanted to jump up and down on Shango! Poor Shango.
 

Little Baron

I had to take this set a little slower. They exhausted me. I found them really hard to connect to - well, the two I studied so far. I am not sure that I really have much of a hold on what they mean, to be honest. I can't get my head round them, which is frustrating. I think it is because they mix the elements up so much that you don't know exactly where you are coming from with a card. This does disappoint me, because there are some cards in the pack that I really 'get', and it makes these ones feel so weak when I contemplate the deck as a whole. Do you know what I mean?

I think your box is great. It looks like it was handed down or something, whereas mine feels very new at the moment [it still isn't finished - havn't had the time].

Will continue with the eights in the next couple of days. They need a bit more time than a lot of the others have. I think the majors will make much more sense when we get to them.

LB
 

Grip Dellabonte

The nine of wands, nine of swords, ten of wands, and ten of swords - those will be fun (she says sardonically)...especially after the eights.
I am ready for the majors and court cards.
It doesn't help that the book totally dropped the ball in explaining the eights, to my mind. The writers got all mystical and philosophical, I think forgetting that most of their readers don't know them personally or know much about their religion, so when they write in kind of a voodoo shorthand, they lose us in places.
The good thing is that we've gotten to know the cards on our own in spots - and de-mystified them - so as we work with them they wll become more and more familiar to us. Things will then come easier, I think.
 

Little Baron

I agree. And I am glad in thinking that we have de-mystified and de-confused more than those that do confuse us. I still look back at that Dani one and am not completely sure what she is all about. Maybe in reads, they will take on their own meaning. As I say, we understand more than the ones we don't.

I totally agree with you about the book. That was what threw me for so long. They could have made things easier to understand. The divination spots for each card often feel like an after-thought or cop out. For such a large volume, you would have thought it might have been handled better.

But there is another book by Glassman, that apparently explains the cards better than this one. She apparently said that she was not happy with the first.

Yes, the Majors will be like desert. Looking forward to them, with heaps of New Orleans cream.

LB
 

Little Baron

Grip Dellabonte said:
Simbi (Rada/Air):
This is Simbi in Air - its natural place. The energy emanating from this card, and all the snakes around this person shows to me a person who knows Simbi and works with this loa well.
This is a magic-user, a seer, or a learned one.
I think the snakes are surrounding this person because they are called to her and sense someone who understands them and the messages they bring. The flashes of energy signify the exchange of information between the person and the snakes.
Everything is green in the background showing the growth that is constantly taking place.
So I think this is a card that shows that a person has reached a new level or spiritual and or intellectual mastery. They are confident and totally immersed in it. It is a temporary state - until they do it again - but it would be a pretty positive card if you were worried about whether or not you were getting anywhere in your studies, and this card came up.

Ok. I have just read through the book definition. And I have to say that I have not got a bloody clue what this one is meant to be about. And it annoys me that the author has been so vague in interpreting it's meaning for us. Why bother even writing anything about it, when what you say says so little. It's like a puzzle.

All I can get from this is that the man in the picture controls the snakes. He is a magician and illusionist. He uses magick. If I can hang on to anything within the text, I can see that this is a card about mind movement. And in this movement, there may be some kind of trickery, through swiftness and quick hands. We are told that complex means are used when more simple would surfice, so maybe this is a showman, of sorts. It might represent someone who can deliver illusions, but not necessarily always be able to back them up on the earthly plane.

It seems that so far, the eights concern movement - emotional movement, passionate and fiery [even sexual] movement, and now, mind movement. All is well and good, but we need to consider when to move with it and when not. Do we hold onto it when maybe we should take a rest or the time is passed. Do we need to watch the movement of others, so that we do not become conned or fall for illusion? Movement is not just our own. We need to keep a quick eye on the movement of others and know when to jump on to it ... and when to jump off.

LB
 

Little Baron

Grip Dellabonte said:
Shango (Santeria/Earth):
The Master of Magick. He has the same qualities I have heard attributed to Capricorn, which ironically is an earth sign - he has his head in the clouds and his feet on the ground. They say the goat is part of earth and heaven because he is sure-footed enough to scale great heights but is also at home at deeper levels.
Shango walks easily between the world of magic and the world of the mundane. He has mastered elements of both realms.
Where Simbi was mental quickness and mastery of new mental knowledge, Shango is mastery of new knowledge, and power that comes with the new knowledge. But I think this knowledge is not the kind ones gets from books or study, but what one gets from instinct and earthly experience. That's why he's the earth aspect. It's more practical, hands-on, learn-as-you-do knowledge. But it seems that that's where his power comes from. It's from the actual physical act of working with the earth, earth elements, earth by-products, that he gets his mental power from.

I don't know if this makes sense. I'm going off on my own thing because their description of Shango infuriates me. I have no clue what they're talking about! So I will talk about my own idea of earthly magic.

For instance, on a mundane level, anyone who has seen what an inspired football player can do with a ball, what a carpenter can do with wood or a sculptor could do with marble to make inaminate matter appear lifelike, what a chef can do in a kitchen with the same tools everybody else has, seems like magic in the physical world. Sometimes they are all in inspired mentally to do something remarkable on the physical plane. And they have power in it because people are attracted to what they do...so they influnce others through their "magic".
I don't know where else to put people like that - who seem magical to us even though they are for the most part, just like us. I see that as the energy of Shango working through them.
The three aspects of Simbi work in the mental field, I think. They are then manifested into new thought, and then go on to either lay the groundwork for more new thought, or actually create something physical like a book, or something.
But Shango starts in the physical realm and creates in the physical realm, and has his power in the physical realm.

If this card were to come up in a reading for someone I would say magical and mental inspiration would manifest itself some way on the physical plane. Because Shango is involved the person would have the power and the strength needed to bring forth its creation.

Forget the coffee, Geoffrey, I need a nap!

Hahaha. This round has been a tough one, Grip. The book has irritated me too. In the past, when I was trying to study the cards alone, it was entries within it like that which helped me to give up and conclude my study. It is just paragraphs of waffle, with no use to a beginner.

What I find irritating is that they consider divination a small part of using this deck. That is all very well, but in modern day, tarot is mainly used to divine with and people that buy the set will probably, on the main, want to use it for divination. Unfortunately, the instructions are pure useless in some places.

I think you have got a good handle on Shango though. I like what you have said, and I very much see how you relate to people with skill as magicians of the modern age - well, at least, that magic is in the eye of the beholder and what another can do may very well seem magical. For many, tarot readers have this quality. Some of the cards in the minors feel more like majors. Legba was like the Hierophant .. remember? And Shango reminds me of the modern day tarot Magician - he who brings inspirtation from the heavens and into the earth. He gives magic life and movement on a physical level. And even in the picture, lightening flashes and he holds up his axe [or whatever it is] like a conductor - very much like Waite's first trump does.

Oh my, Grip. How glads are you that we have finished with the 'eights'?

I will [when I have calmed down from this set, look into my books and see if there is any 'clearer' information about any of the loa mentioned in this thread, and maybe we might be able to glean a better understanding when we have had a short amount of time away from them].

Thanks for your introduction though. It did help and I can see that this was a particularly difficult foursome to get stuck into.

LB
 

Grip Dellabonte

that magic is in the eye of the beholder and what another can do may very well seem magical. For many, tarot readers have this quality. Some of the cards in the minors feel more like majors. Legba was like the Hierophant .. remember? And Shango reminds me of the modern day tarot Magician - he who brings inspirtation from the heavens and into the earth. He gives magic life and movement on a physical level. And even in the picture, lightening flashes and he holds up his axe [or whatever it is] like a conductor - very much like Waite's first trump does.
This is why I feel I learn so much from you. What a great illustration.
The eights may have been difficult for both of us, but at least Shango has given each of us some excellent food for thought.
The axe....what a perfect comparison! ( the whole quote is brill but I liked that part the best).
 

Grip Dellabonte

Ok. I have just read through the book definition. And I have to say that I have not got a bloody clue what this one is meant to be about. And it annoys me that the author has been so vague in interpreting it's meaning for us. Why bother even writing anything about it, when what you say says so little. It's like a puzzle.

I went over the introduction to the eights so many times. I never got it.
You had mentioned Glassman's book. Is that the one called Vodou something? I'll have to look it up.
In the meantime, I may have to resort to looking loa up on the web if the nines and the tens are this difficult!
But all in all, relying just - well mainly - on our own interpretations, I think we're doing pretty well.
That's why I'm printing everything off. I'm going to use our notes almost exclusively.
 

Little Baron

You know, we might feel a bit disillusioned with some of the cards - those b*****d threes and now, these eights. But on the whole, we have done so well, Grip. Many have fallen far before this stage and given up. These cards have really tested us and we have taken them all on the chin.

We have worked out some of our own interpretations but they have all been based around the loa in question. We havn't just made it all up. And I think we deserve a pat on the back for getting as far as we have. I think that in future decks, this experience will really aid us. As an example, the Margarete Petersen is one that I thought would completely floor me, due to it's abstract minors. But incomparison to the Voodoo deck, it is a bloody walk in the park, lol.

But I don't want to discourage anyone else from taking on this deck. On the main, I would say we have experienced more highs and revelations than brick walls to run into. Wouldn't you say? We have realised that the deck is a readible and worthy one. We have seen that the lwa speak.

Whether I choose to read with this often or not in the future, I want to make it all the way through this study. I kept coming back to this deck and trying. This time, I want to finish what I have started. I think it is a good lesson in discipline for me, as well as being a nourishing spiritual experience.

LB
 

Grip Dellabonte

I have gotten pretty attached to these cards. I would definitely recommend this deck to anyone who showed an interest and asked me about it.
I would be sincere and tell them the book leaves a lot to be desired, and doesn't do the cards (or the loa) justice, but the deck is most certainly worth investing in.
I have read once for my daughter, a couple of times for my sister, and many times for myself (only using the cards we've worked with).
My sister has always been the one I needed to get past. If you put any stock in astrology, she's a cancer! Very feeling oriented - very first impression influenced. I've told you before that this deck really creeped her out. Took me a loooong time to wear her down.
Now she actually asks to have me use it to read for her.
This system you started - or this approach - I think I've already told you that I think it's perfect. At least for me.
I also may have forced myself to finish had we started with the major arcana. But by starting with the minors, you're right - that's where we got our discipline.
I did start the thread on the Harmonious deck, and I am following your system. Let's see if the one person who's responding sticks with it.
I went and looked at the place where all the Study Groups are consolidated. The moderators have listed all our posts and it looks so cool! It's just a great feeling to see all those cards listed consecutively!