Is there any Waite book actually explaining the RWS attributions?

Sulis

When I see Waite's 6 of Swords and Crowley's version of the same card I think they're very similar.
In the Waite version you have the swords in the boat above the water - head over heart - getting away from a situation to get some perspective, some objectiveness, some clarity of thought.
Then in the Thoth we have the clarity of thought... To me the 6s are the choices we make to restore the balance and harmony that was upset in the 5s so they're both about making choices to put things right by using logic and by not letting emotions get in the way.
 

Zephyros

ETA. The Waite-Smith illustrations in the Minors are not necessarily interpretations. They may be intended (at least in some instances) merely to jog the memory about the associated Decan of the Zodiac. I will always think of Mercury in Aquarius when I see the Six of Swords.

It is difficult to know when and where the images are interpretations and where they are something else. If we go back to the thread topic, Waite just didn't furnish that much information on his deck, did he.

Think of A Beautiful Mind on the 6 of swords. One that is almost troubled by the need for logic maybe finding serenity in science

I really like that metaphor, helped me understand the card better :)
 

Richard

Waite was ambiguous about how much importance should be attached to Tarot divination. Therefore, I take the PKT divinatory meanings of the Minors with a certain amount of circumspection. They do appear to illustrate their respective Zodiacal Decans, but Waite apparently refused to reveal this because of his oaths of secrecy. Of course, an illustration of a Decan certainly suggests an interpretation, and Waite provides something of this sort in PKT. Also, I do think that the Golden Dawn keywords are applicable. The Six of Swords is (Lord of) Earned Success, which is not incompatible with Crowley's keyword Science. I suppose I'm being about as vague as Waite himself :), so with this post I'll stop wasting bandwidth for now.
 

Aeon418

In the Waite version you have the swords in the boat above the water - head over heart - getting away from a situation to get some perspective, some objectiveness, some clarity of thought.
Then in the Thoth we have the clarity of thought... To me the 6s are the choices we make to restore the balance and harmony that was upset in the 5s so they're both about making choices to put things right by using logic and by not letting emotions get in the way.
I have slightly different perspective. I don't necessarily see this card as "head over heart" or "logic over emotions". Instead I a see a poised mind that is capable of riding the (emotional) waters even if they get choppy. It's a kind of mental equanimity that is very hard to achieve, but it is one that represents the mind at it's balanced best. It's not a cold, logical mind that asserts it's authority over the other aspects of self. It's a mind that is capable of working with the whole being, but it is adaptable and flexible enough to deal with disturbances in any one particular area. Most of us rarely attain this and our mind/boat starts taking on water due to strong emotions or we end up traveling in the wrong direction because we're biased or over deveoped in certain areas.
 

Teheuti

6 of Swords

I don't know what Thirteen said, but I don't think they are all that different. In my experience a lot of people have a hard time reconciling the Thoth and RWS 6 of Swords because Crowley named the card, Science.
Both cards are about the perspective achieved by gaining distance from a subject, whether it is scientific objectivity or moving on with your life.

Added - I just saw that Sulis said almost the same thing about perspective—although I don't see it as a card of choices or of head over heart.
 

Teheuti

The Whare Ra (Felkin) deck is probably as close as we'll come to the originals by Mathers. This is the deck used by the New Zealand branch of the GD. The final part of "Book T" was added on by Mrs. Felkin. We do have drawings of Majors from the Hanged Man to the World that appear in several original GD notebooks, and they correspond with the Whare Ra deck exactly.

It is not true that GD members were supposed to design their own decks. They were supposed to copy the images in their notebooks as they were introduced to them as part of the Outer Order initiations. In the Inner Order (from which Book T comes) they were supposed to draw and color all the cards. Whare Ra had the B&W line drawings printed for members to use.

Someone has already posted one link for this material:
http://tarot.org.il/Library/Misc/The Tarot Trumps.html

Bob O'Neil's commentary on the RWS Majors is also a good resource:
http://www.tarotpassages.com/old_moonstruck/oneill/

It's important to realize that Waite had studied the tarot intensely for over a decade before doing the RWS deck with Pixie Smith. He read all the original works that had been written in French, surveyed all the decks in the British Museum, and studied the French and English cartomancy traditions. James Revak did a great job of comparing several of Waite's sources for both the Majors and Minor Arcana:
http://www.villarevak.org/td/td_2.htm

What Revak left off is the GD material that can be found in "Book T" as well as Eliphas Lévi's texts on the Trumps and Paul Christian's work. O'Neill's "Sources" gives a good indication of how much more information can be found in Waite's other books.

An additional source that only I seem to find significant, is Waite's suggestions in The Hidden Church of the Holy Graal (and the revised Holy Grail) regarding the Minor Arcana. On my blog I point out the item-by-item parallels between the RWS suit of Cups and Waite's short retelling of Robert de Boron's "Joseph of Arimathea". I'll have a post up soon on the suit of Swords. Others have noted the close parallels between the Pentacles suit and Masonic craft symbolism.

The amazing thing about the RWS deck is how much rich, esoteric symbolism is included in it, along with the most important lineages of both French and English divinatory meanings.
 

Teheuti

Yes. I think the Case book is the best available on the Majors, although Waite's own PKT has a lot to say that is not immediately apparent. Case's earlier book also has good material and is more focused on divination.

It's important, though, to realize that Case changed the astrological attributions for the decans in the Minor Arcana. Rather than the Chaldean system used by the GD, Case assigned rulership of each decan according to the rulers of that triplicity. For instance, the three fire signs are ruled Mars, Sun and Jupiter. So the three decans of Aries are ruled first by the natural ruler, Mars, then the Sun rules the next decan and Jupiter rules the third. So, his material is not that applicable to the RWS Minor Arcana.

A good source for an understanding of the RWS Minors, based on GD principles, especially of the decans, is Pursuit of Destiny by Muriel Hasbrouck, later republished as Tarot & Astrology (or something like that). It seems that Hasbrouck studied under Crowley when he was in American teaching and writing about astrology—so the material, although illustrated with the RWS deck, has applications to the Thoth.
 

Aeon418

Both cards are about the perspective achieved by gaining distance from a subject, whether it is scientific objectivity or moving on with your life.
On top of that there is the work angle. And I think this ties in with the Golden Dawn name, Lord of Earned Success. Science is very rarely about flash-in-the-pan discoveries. Usually it's a slow and laborious process of trial and error. There are frequently setbacks and mistakes made along the way. But each failure paves the way for the next step forward until success is finally achieved.

I don't think it's too big a stretch to see the same themes in a boat ride across a river. I'm sure anyone who's ever been on a boat in rough weather will be able to relate.

These themes can be seen in the common interpretations of this card.
Intelligence that has realized it's goal. (Reached the other shore.) Labor. Work. Success after anxiety. Passage from difficulty. Journey by water.
 

Teheuti

On top of that there is the work angle. And I think this ties in with the Golden Dawn name, Lord of Earned Success. Science is very rarely about flash-in-the-pan discoveries. Usually it's a slow and laborious process of trial and error. . . .
These themes can be seen in the common interpretations of this card.—
Intelligence that has realized it's goal. (Reached the other shore.) Labor. Work. Success after anxiety. Passage from difficulty. Journey by water.
Yes. In the 5 of Swords there is a lot of stress, anxiety, division and hurt. There is great success in overcoming that in the Six. The Swords way of doing so is to get distance from the issue—to clear the mind. The Motherpeace deck (that often tries to reconcile the Thoth and RWS) depicts this as rising above the situation in order to get a wider, more objective perspective—to see the big picture. In RWS, we get the sense that viewing things from the far shore will make all the difference. The RWS suggests that there is great success in simply extricating oneself from a stressful situation.

For instance, in the case of battered women—to finally leave is a huge success, and to accept help from another is also major. Both require accepting the hard, objective facts even when the current of emotion threatens to capsize you.

Aeon, I don't quite see where you are getting the 'trial-and-error' part from. It seems to me that this card is in the midst of a forging ahead stage (although nothing seems to be finally resolved, yet). I have a note from some GD source: "King Forces [Knight in Tiphareth?] & those who obtain success by commanding it. Hence success not by luck but by effort." This supports the "work" aspect that you mention.

Aeon, Using your suggestion of taking the Major Arcana equivalents to the decans literally (what great fun!), we find that Mercury in Aquarius is the Magician in the Star. And thus we see the Magician, with a very big wand(!), on a night sea journey over water. He's using his magic and mental agility to bring hope.

Mathers (1888) emphasizes the qualities of Mercury—envoy, messenger; as well as travel.
 

Aeon418

Aeon, I don't quite see where you are getting the 'trial-and-error' part from. It seems to me that this card is in the midst of a forging ahead stage (although nothing seems to be finally resolved, yet). I have a note from some GD source: "King Forces [Knight in Tiphareth?] & those who obtain success by commanding it. Hence success not by luck but by effort." This supports the "work" aspect that you mention.
Have you never been boating? In my experience with boats you can't simply stamp your authority on the water. You have to work with the tide or the current, constantly correcting your course. To me this is a picture of how the mind and the scientific process work. We try to progress and move forwards in a given direction, but frequently find we've taken a wrong turn or drifted off course. If we're smart we acknowledge this fact and try to correct our course, at the same time (hopefully) learning from previous error. A mind that's incapable of this often ends up paddling in circles.

I think this quote from Thomas Eddison sums it up beautifully.
If I find 10000 ways something won't work, I haven't failed. I am not discouraged, because every wrong attempt discarded is another step forward.