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The "Celestial Globe" in The Star

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Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa View Post
Rather. ...


(Great rest of post by the way.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa View Post
... this card seems to change according to one's viewpoint.
!

Wonderful isnt it. We have to remember that the Celestial Sphere is an objective celestial view based upon a subjective geocentric view. The construct is also a 'visible' geocentric view evolving into a greater 'observable' geocentric view.... with probably more beyond. To , all of a sudden, be outside looking 'at' that internal view from the outside, is a great way to change one's viewpoint.

The thing is, before the rise of 'separation' ie, Cartesian Dualism and its pre-cursors, these concepts would not be seen as different views. ... that certainly changes one's viewpoint too . Perhaps it's the viewpoint of Nuit (if there is such a thing)?
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This may sound a little OT and mystical to some. But FWIW....

The patterns on the celestial sphere? I think there's a clue just below the sphere. The hills on the horizon look like pyramids to me. The City of the Pyramids? Binah!

For some reason I keep thinking of the Giza plateau, but in reverse. Instead of the night sky being mapped onto the ground, here the ground and the surrounding space are being projected/reflected onto the sphere. This whole card is a very clever artistic representation of the Supernals and their relationship to the rest of the Tree of Life.

By extension the celestial sphere also represents the individual ego. The Thoth Star card is a beautiful abstract image of the relationship between the ego and supernal consciousness. It discloses the nature of the relationship between the (so-called) individual and the HGA.

Is a true reflection in the sphere K&C?
Is the Master one who has stepped beyond the confines of that little soap bubble? Food for thought...
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Thats interesting. Although the Giza Plateau doesnt actually appear to be a star map (anymore ) it doesnt retract from the rest of your idea. The card to me does depict another dimension. The 'Planet' the woman is upon has qualities of an Enochian vision ( IME , from the tablets, not the Aethyrs), it may also represent one of Crowley's 'Aethyr visions' ?

In that case, the 'earth' she pours her fluid on (through the Abyss) receives the forms on the other side of the Abyss, hence the appearance of crystals and like, the Structure of forms below Binah. For me that fits really well ... except; Binah (on the Tree) and Saturn is a sphere within the Celestial Sphere.

Isnt it ?

What do you make of the variations in depictions of the star ( the 'Babalon type' ones, and the 'Therion type' one) in the Celestial Sphere ?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenDarkWind View Post
The carbon molecule is the backbone of all known forms of life. The Urey-Miller experiment (1953) demonstrated that several amino acids could be synthesized in a recreation of the primitive Earth's atmosphere.
And ... are you saying those two sentences are somehow linked and lead to a conclusion? The middle bit seems missing ? And are you saying that experiment demonstrates " self-replicating, coalesced carbon molecules in space " ? ? ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenDarkWind View Post

She is divided for love's sake, for the chance of union.

I can't really argue with the last part, though.
It seems like you think Nuit is a star. I recommend reading the Star section in the book of Thoth and following the references in that as to how to come to an understanding of the card and Nuit.
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I didn't mean to imply that the molecules were in space, I was talking about the theory that the elements making up planets are formed in the cores of stars. Sorry if I'm not good at explaining this.

I don't think Nuit is a star, I think she is symbolized by the Star. I will reread that section, though.
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Nuit is symbolised by a star ... and many other things, but some people seem to think the nature of a star is that of Nuit . IMO it isnt , it is the nature of space itself ; the void from which all is generated. Infinite Space. It includes 'stars' but they are 'Had - The manifestation of Nuit, together; Nuit and her manifestation make the Infinite Space and Infinite Stars.

" I am the naked brilliance of the voluptuous night-sky."

Looking at the dynamics of single stars and 'cosmic recycling' , to me, seems more related to 'Hadit'.

The star aspect of Nuit is more related to the 'star field' ...' the grand array' ...'nothingness with twinkles' .... or

http://vimeo.com/18216055
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
For me that fits really well ... except; Binah (on the Tree) and Saturn is a sphere within the Celestial Sphere.
True. But I think Saturn is a bit of a special case. In the context of the 'classical' planets, Saturn sits on the outer boundary line dividing within from without.

In a way it mirrors the letter Heh to which this card is attributed. Heh does double duty within the tetragrammaton where it stands for both Briah and Assiah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
What do you make of the variations in depictions of the star ( the 'Babalon type' ones, and the 'Therion type' one) in the Celestial Sphere ?
I'm not convinced that the star in the sphere is a 'Therion type' one. For one thing it's missing the typical 'cock & balls' motif (sun, moon, and two witnesses) that would unambiguously identify it as the sigil of To Mega Therion. In this instance I think it's just a simple septagram.

Plus in his description of the Star card Crowley says the star in the sphere is the Star of Venus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleister Crowley
Behind the figure of the goddess is the celestial globe. Most prominent among it's features is the seven-pointed Star of Venus, as if declaring the principal characteristic of her nature to be Love.
That instantly makes me think of Nuit's declaration that she is divided for love's sake. The Star of Babalon in the upper left represents the greater Supernal concept of Love. The unity of all contradictions, all points of view gathered into the cup of Babalon, etc. But the reflection of this archetypal ideal into the celestial sphere, into the sphere of manifestation, is a stepped down lower octave - Venus.
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How accurate is the term Celestial Sphere here, anyway? After all, we're talking about the entire universe, not just the part that's visible from Earth. One could even say that today's celestial sphere is far larger than in Crowley's time.

An interesting passage in the BoT "It is only in the lower cup that the forms of energy issuing forth show rectilinear characteristics. In this may be discovered the doctrine which asserts that the blindness of humanity to all the beauty and wonder of the Universe is due to this illusion of straightness." that could be saying something about the sphere, and reinforces the background/foreground thing. The spiral rays of light from the star take on more angular qualities further down, and we can see a series of squares or rectangles, suggesting perhaps an effect like standing with one mirror in front of another, and we have one star inside another and another, each shining upon the other.

http://mathcraft.wonderhowto.com/how...lines-0131301/
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon418 View Post
True. But I think Saturn is a bit of a special case. In the context of the 'classical' planets, Saturn sits on the outer boundary line dividing within from without.
In one way, I suppose it does, there are more Spheres around it of course. I'm not sure anymore where this line is that divides within from without. I see Saturn as 'dividing' the idea of forms from the forms themselves, and the processes that then act on forms to manifest them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon418 View Post
In a way it mirrors the letter Heh to which this card is attributed. Heh does double duty within the tetragrammaton where it stands for both Briah and Assiah.
Hmmm ... that was my other view that I through too rad to put here; like how the whole view of the card is looking out at one aspect of the C.S. , like looking out through a window ... but the text doesnt seem to support that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon418 View Post
I'm not convinced that the star in the sphere is a 'Therion type' one. For one thing it's missing the typical 'cock & balls' motif (sun, moon, and two witnesses) that would unambiguously identify it as the sigil of To Mega Therion.

In this instance I think it's just a simple septagram.
yeah ... that was me trying to be brief ... I should have said ; what do you make in the different depictions of the form of the stars, , the one in Venus having every third point joined instead of every second?

... actually, I will change that as well, as I know the text, what I want is an opinion about the general form of the stars; what is significant in their form that led to their particular usages. I notice that usually the one drawn with each second point linked relates to female aspects and where the star with each third point linked, its usage relates to male aspects .

Arent both forms of septagrams?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon418 View Post

Plus in his description of the Star card Crowley says the star in the sphere is the Star of Venus.

That instantly makes me think of Nuit's declaration that she is divided for love's sake. The Star of Babalon in the upper left represents the greater Supernal concept of Love. The unity of all contradictions, all points of view gathered into the cup of Babalon, etc. But the reflection of this archetypal ideal into the celestial sphere, into the sphere of manifestation, is a stepped down lower octave - Venus.
So, do you then assume that this different form of the star represents that ? Maybe, but I am assuming that could be done with a similar star .... like the other stars shown in the card ... but ... if all the rest of the card is 'outside' the Celestial Sphere.

I guess I have never seen that form of septagram used in association with Venus before

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_of_Venus

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=t...w=1242&bih=577

yeah ... I know Crowley says it is the star of Venus... I am wondering why he says it is, and why he chose that version ?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa View Post
How accurate is the term Celestial Sphere here, anyway? After all, we're talking about the entire universe, not just the part that's visible from Earth. One could even say that today's celestial sphere is far larger than in Crowley's time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
... The construct is also a 'visible' geocentric view evolving into a greater 'observable' geocentric view.... with probably more beyond.
Also, are we talking here about a C.S. in th classic sense or in the astronomical sense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa View Post

An interesting passage in the BoT "It is only in the lower cup that the forms of energy issuing forth show rectilinear characteristics. In this may be discovered the doctrine which asserts that the blindness of humanity to all the beauty and wonder of the Universe is due to this illusion of straightness." that could be saying something about the sphere, and reinforces the background/foreground thing. The spiral rays of light from the star take on more angular qualities further down, and we can see a series of squares or rectangles, suggesting perhaps an effect like standing with one mirror in front of another, and we have one star inside another and another, each shining upon the other.
Mmm-hmmm

Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
We have to remember 2 things here;

1. Frieda's doesnt always use conventional perspectives.

2. The difficulty of executing the concept in flat drawings and painting.

.... etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa View Post
Ah ... string art <flashback>
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