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Thelemic pronunciation?

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Thelemic pronunciation?


So this has been bugging me for a while now, since everyone seems to pronounce words differently. It is all Greek to me.

For example, in my head I say "te-LE-ma." Silent h, all Es pronounced like in "bed." But, people from from Anglo-Saxon countries tend to pronunce it "the-LEE-ma." That sounds odd.

Next, Nuit is spelled like the French "night" but it doesn't seem to be pronounced that way. I've heard people say new-EET. Why is this?

I've heard some people say Hadit similar to how you would say "I've had it" when it appears that the correct way is ha-DEET like the word in Islam. Is it?

Ra-Hoor-Khuit... I'm probably wrong about the spelling, can't check now, but the last part seems to be pronounced as a gutteral spitting sound, as if someone has just shot out phlegm. Is it? The alternative, Q-it, which I've heard people use, seems even more strange.

Those are just a few example I'm not getting. I guess "do what thou wilt" holds for pronunciation, too?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa View Post
For example, in my head I say "te-LE-ma." Silent h, all Es pronounced like in "bed." But, people from from Anglo-Saxon countries tend to pronunce it "the-LEE-ma." That sounds odd.
I'm odd then.

Out of force of habit I pronounce it "the-LEE-ma". That's how I first encountered the word and it has stuck. I think the correct pronunciation is actually "the-LAY-ma". For a while I tried to use this pronunciation but kept slipping back into vulgar Anglo-Sax-isms.
Of course I drop the 'LEE' in favour of a 'leh' when it comes to Thelemites.

Nuit - Noo-EET.

Hadit - Hah-DEET.

Ra Hoor Khuit - Rah-Huur-Koo-EET.

Are these the 'correct' pronunciations? Probably not. But have you ever tried vibrating any of this stuff in a ritual context?
Although I do know one person who pronounces the word "khabs" like a hissing cobra trying to cough up a big glob of phlegm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa View Post
I guess "do what thou wilt" holds for pronunciation, too?
"This book shall be translated into all tongues: but always with the original in the writing of the Beast."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon418 View Post
Are these the 'correct' pronunciations? Probably not. But have you ever tried vibrating any of this stuff in a ritual context?
Yep... phlegm for everyone. (:

Plus I have a perpetual runny nose... the less said about that the better.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa View Post
Yep... phlegm for everyone. (:
I agree with Crowley that AL III:54 is onomatopoetic.
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When I studied New Testament Greek, we pronounced thelema sort of like the-lay'-ma. It's in the Lord's Prayer: ΓΕΝΗΘΗΤΩ ΤΟ ΘΕΛΗΜΑ ΣΟΥ (thy will be done). In ΘΕΛΗΜΑ, E is a short e (epsilon), and H is a long e (eta). Not surprisingly, opinions differ as to exactly how they were pronounced.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa View Post
.....Plus I have a perpetual runny nose... the less said about that the better.
Join the club.
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I'm not sure how Crowley pronounced θελημα. We are taught that ancient Greek pronounced the η (eta) as a long e - "ay" as in "day" - but modern Greek tends to make it like a long i - "ee" as in "see". Hence "Theleema".

Most Thelemites I have known have pronounced it like that. One of my oldest freinds and teachers (an OTO Lodge Master in Edmonton) said it that way, and he was in turn initiated by Grady McMurtry, who knew Crowley long enough to have heard him say it, so it could be that Crowley said it "Theleema" too.

Having learned my Thelema from books at the start, I said it as if it were what ancient Greek is purported to have been. But I settled into "Thel-uh-muh", possibly the worst, at least the laziest, solution of all.

The final "t" in Nuit, Hadit and Ra-Hoor-Khuit is pronounced. Crowley added the "phallic yod" to the Egyptian "Nut" and "Khut", possibly taking a cue from the original French normalization of the reading "Hud-t" as "Hudit" in their transliteration of the Stele in 1904 (which Crowley then adapted to Had(-it) from the formula AbraHADabra).

We know Crowley pronounced them that way from his poetry, for instance in the Stele versification:

"..... I invoke, I greet
Thy presence, O Ra-Hoor-Khuit!"

"O wingèd snake of light, Hadit!
Abide with me, Ra-Hoor-Khuit!"

Crowley seems to have pronounced "Ra" as "Rah" -

"Appear on the throne of Ra!
Open the ways of the Khu!
Lighten the ways of the Ka!"

(there is no way "ka" was pronounced "kay")

But I tend to say "ray" in the name "Ra-Hoor-Khuit", and I think that is the historically "correct" pronunciation.
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How would one pronounce the Kh in Khuit? The closest thing I can think of that would match is the Hebrew Chet, which I'm not actually sure Crowley would be able to pronounce, at least not without practice. It's completely guttural. But then, he spoke several languages fluently.
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He had studied Arabic with living teachers, so he must have tried some of those consonants. I am sure - at least I would bet - he pronounced it just as a simple, hard "k" though.

What I really want to know is how HE pronounced "Thoth". I assume "tote" rather than the barbaric "thawth" (i.e. the way I pronounced it from the beginning, and still do when I don't catch myself).
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There are recordings of his voice, but the quality is so bad as to be almost unintelligible. This makes for some pretty dull listening if you don't know what he's reading and you're expecting certain words. They were released on CD though. Does anyone have them?
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