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Thoth Study Group - The Hanged Man - XII

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Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa View Post
Truly one of the most interesting cards. He symblizes Christ or Osiris, the supreme sublime suffering. Yet his face is even more serene that that of the RWS Hanged man, firstly because he is suffering more, and secondly because this card relates more to the Universal suffering and self-deprivation that is typical of so many martyrs. Also, there is something about his face that is not quite human. His body and face are reminiscant of something else, of the Gods perhaps.
He hangs upside down in the waters of oblivion, of forgetfullness.
A powerful, masterful card, definitely one of my favourites.
I feel the same way Clos. I mean, I know that Crowley, probably due to his past, despised of the idea of sacrifice, and in one sense, I am with him. But yet, he is also one of my favourites as well. I guess I am a heretic to his eyes to see this card differently! I disagree with Crowley to an extent, exactly because Jesus and Osiris (and probably Bacchus, who is also a Solar "self-sacrificing" deity) are depicted here. I guess this is why Crucifiction is called a Mystery, and it is -many times- misunderstood. The Christ center is Tiphareth, whose magickal image is "A majestic King. A child. A sacrificed God.", so this so-called "sacrifice" is one of it's functions. However, "sacrifice" for Tiphareth is pretty different to the "sacrifice" Crowley meant. Sacrifice for Tiphareth I think means to translate force to form and vice-versa, as it may be needed to balance the whole Tree. This way, it fulfills it's function of connecting the Supernals to the rest of the Tree, because "No one comes to the Father except through me." (which Crowley was a fan of, but using different words). I think this isn't so "evil" in it's Universal sense, but I guess it may be "evil", as Crowley refers to it, in it's personal sense. Aeon 418 went into a better presentation of Crowley's use of the term "sacrifice" so I don't think to go too far about it. As Crowley says,

Quote:
But in this card the only question is of the "redemption" of the submerged element, and therefore everything is reversed.
Book of Thoth, p. 64

So, I would say his face is sirene because "sacrifice", in the conventional meaning or in the context Crowley gave the card, isn't what his function is. His "sacrifice" is the "descend" into the "lower" parts of his kingdom to maintain the stability and the connection of the entire Tree as it already is and to re-estabilish, as the Redeemer, the "connection system" of the Tree. In Crowley's viewpoint on the card, I see the phenomenon of "Prince of Cups". I guess most will get my pun
Top   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owl Tarot View Post
The Christ center is Tiphareth, whose magickal image is "A majestic King. A child. A sacrificed God.", so this so-called "sacrifice" is one of it's functions.
It was. But in the New Aeon the archetype of an eternally birthing child has superseded that of a sacrificed god as the central archetype of transformation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owl Tarot View Post
"No one comes to the Father except through me." (which Crowley was a fan of, but using different words).
But the Redeemer is now Babalon. (see Liber 418 - 3rd aethyr) The sacrifice is no longer vicarious. It is the draining of one's own blood into the Graal. That's why the Hanged Man looks a bit pale.
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I still like this card, but my views on it have changed somewhat since I wrote that post. The idea of sacrifice still exists, of course, as illustrated by countless fairy tales, but I think the nature of that sacrifice itself has changed. It is no longer a mechanism of redemption, which implies a debt to be repaid, but a willing experience, a way of wholly going into the experience, leaving nothing back. After all, there are clear indications of pregnancy here, descending down to Hod, which obviously isn't a bad thing.

There is also some fear in this card, fear of the dissolution of the next, almost as though the HM is clinging to the scorpion of Death, rather than actually relinquishing that illusory control in favor of the eagle.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon418 View Post
But the Redeemer is now Babalon. (see Liber 418 - 3rd aethyr) The sacrifice is no longer vicarious. It is the draining of one's own blood into the Graal. That's why the Hanged Man looks a bit pale.
Yep, the words are different, so we are possibly saying the same thing, but the essense is -almost or totally- the same me thinks. This is why I went forward to present a different viewpoint of "sacrifice", as I think the words I use phrase it closer to what Tiphareth's function is since it is so infathomable sometimes, being the center and keeping every Sephira happy. Crowley used more attractive wording, he was a profilic and intelligent writer after all, and presented the same notion in a different manner, if you may.

Vicarious, I think it is when seen with only it's negative assotiations, if you get what I mean, this is a possible reason why Religions are sometimes apart from their Deity, because of this "contradiction" (seeing from below the Abyss could be a clue to why this happens so often).

@clos: I agree, and this is why I like this card. The way you use the word "sacrifice", the definition and the perspective you are using, and the same goes with the word "redemption". When Tiphareth is called the "Redeemer", I think he doesn't imply a debt but an action to re-estabilish harmony and balance in his "Kingdom". The Yetziratic text also gives another perspective about it. The negative definition of the word leads someone to see only it's "negative" associations following Crowley's lead. Descending into Hod from the Sphere of Justice and the "Sacrificial Priest", Geburah, I think it also implies transmutation of force and form according to the Tree's needs. So, maybe this "sacrifice" is actually a form of transformation rather then what Crowley was getting at.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CreativeFire View Post
The snakes I usually relate to transformation, however no doubt they have other meanings in this card, with one seemingly tying him to the inverted Ankh and one curled up in the dark area below his head. I would be interested to hear others thoughts on these snakes, as I am totally without my book at the moment.
the snake at the bottom looks like the shape of the coiled kundalini serpent, undisturbed in darkness surrounded by water ( though apparently is usually coiled around the base of the spine). Flipping the card over it then has risen to the top and the ankh would also have righted itself, I understand as the symbol of eternal life and the combination of male and female.

The other snake, representing male energy, (BOT) creating and destroying would now be holding the ankh in the upright position rather than hanging the hanged man with it.
He looks more powerful too with outstretched hands as upright

I hope it is ok to contribute a couple of thoughts here, I looked for guidelines, couldn't find anything to see if it is open to all or not.

ETA doesn't feel like a card that relates much for women.. apart from the universal deity kind...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owl Tarot View Post
Yep, the words are different, so we are possibly saying the same thing, but the essense is -almost or totally- the same me thinks.
Possibly. But the 'function' of Babalon as Redeemer is in Binah, not Tiphareth. This Redemption is the setting of the Daughter on the Throne of the Mother. The marriage to the Son in Tiphareth is only one step in that process. The attainment in Tiphareth was the apex of attainment in the previous aeon, but is now represented by the Cenotaph.

Initiation in the Aeon of the Child (p.124)
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Daniel Gunther
.... our own use of the word "Redeemer" has nothing whatsoever in common with this unseemly doctrine of the Dying God.

Heh final of Tetragrammaton is attributed to Pentacles, or coins. The "redemption" of Heh final is the restoration of the Daughter Malkuth to the Throne of the Mother Binah. The messenger of Babalon who delivered that Word of the Scarlet Woman embodied the means of crossing the Abyss. It is not accomplished by vicarious atonement and faith in the labours of another; within the cricible of each individual heart the coin must be redeemed by self-sustained effort. The price paid with our own blood, not by faith in the blood of another.
The Angel and the Abyss (p.104)
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Daniel Gunther
The Hanged Man signifies the Empty Tomb for yet another reason, and one greater than serving as the Cenotaph of a fallen Aeon. As an insignia of the True Master of the Temple, he represents those Saints who have poured the last drop of their blood into the Cup of Babalon, who have relinquished all that they were, and sit as nameless pyramids of dust in the City of Night. The Tomb is empty of name and form, for those who entered therein have given All. The water of the Great Sea from which he hangs suspended is Blood, the water of Life.
Initiation in the Aeon of the Child (p.155)
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Daniel Gunther
Now the primary reason that L.V.X. will no longer open the Vault of Abiegnus, the mountain of the Adepts, is because the Vault must be opened by virtue of the word N.O.X.. Why? Because Abiegnus, the Mountain of the Adepts in the New Aeon is identical with Zion, the Holy Mountain of God, the City of the Pyramids under the Night of Pan.
.......
Abiegnus no longer signifies the tomb of the risen Christ, but rather the tomb of the Saints who have poured the last drop of their blood into the Cup of Babalon.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon418 View Post
Possibly. But the 'function' of Babalon as Redeemer is in Binah, not Tiphareth. This Redemption is the setting of the Daughter on the Throne of the Mother. The marriage to the Son in Tiphareth is only one step in that process. The attainment in Tiphareth was the apex of attainment in the previous aeon, but is now represented by the Cenotaph.

Initiation in the Aeon of the Child (p.124)


The Angel and the Abyss (p.104)


Initiation in the Aeon of the Child (p.155)
Quite well said, I now get the slight difference there is. Maybe in the previous formula the complete explanation was not told while now it is "revealed" as a whole. In that light you mention now, Aeon, I think Adjustment, which represents the He final Redeemed and on the throne of the Mother, Babalon or Binah, is another card which we could see functioning in harmony with the matter at hand. It is another Trump connected to Geburah which connects it to Tiphareth, and the idea just "hit" me.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owl Tarot View Post
Quite well said, I now get the slight difference there is. Maybe in the previous formula the complete explanation was not told while now it is "revealed" as a whole.
That's one reason why the Dying God formula is said to be a misconception of nature. The 'great sacrifice' is not quite what it appears to be. In the New Aeon the old formula has not been totally abrogated, but it has been superceeded and absorbed in a wider understanding. Just like sunrise and sunset is only an event from the perspective of the earth. But from the perspective of the sun it all looks very different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owl Tarot View Post
In that light you mention now, Aeon, I think Adjustment, which represents the He final Redeemed and on the throne of the Mother, Babalon or Binah, is another card which we could see functioning in harmony with the matter at hand. It is another Trump connected to Geburah which connects it to Tiphareth, and the idea just "hit" me.
Very perceptive.

Heh(5) + Heh(5) (redeemed) + Lamed(30) = Mem(40).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liber LXV III:59
Therefore is the Eagle made one with the Man, and the gallows of infamy dance with the fruit of the just.
Crowley revealed this new formula in Atu's V & XXI where the Eagle and Man kerubs have switched places. This new placement is based on the signs of N.O.X. and creates a new pentagrammaton. The old L.V.X. pentagram formula is meant to represent IHShVH as the 'redeemer'. But the new pentagrammaton is centred on the letter Lamed instead of Shin. Heh and Heh final are now balanced at either end of the horizontal bar.

The Hierophant gives the 'sinister' clue with his inverted benediction. Instead of the Roman V it forms the Greek letter Lambda.
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This chapter might help for study of this card;

http://hermetic.com/crowley/book-4/chap12.html

( " ... which is of great importance to the student, and we therefore make no further apology, We should not have made even this apology for an apology ... " )
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon418 View Post
Crowley revealed this new formula in Atu's V & XXI where the Eagle and Man kerubs have switched places. This new placement is based on the signs of N.O.X. and creates a new pentagrammaton. The old L.V.X. pentagram formula is meant to represent IHShVH as the 'redeemer'. But the new pentagrammaton is centred on the letter Lamed instead of Shin. Heh and Heh final are now balanced at either end of the horizontal bar.

The Hierophant gives the 'sinister' clue with his inverted benediction. Instead of the Roman V it forms the Greek letter Lambda.
Could this be the reason for the "sinister" smile of the Hierophant who seems to "be enjoying a very secret joke at somebody's expense"?
Top   #30




 


 


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