testing the shuffle

SunChariot said:

To me Tarot runs on faith. The more faith we have that the right cards will come up, the more they do in some miraculous ways. To me this method is a way to fix a problem that doesn't exist. To make Tarot more reliable, when it always IS that. It's just maybe your faith in it always being reliable? If you know what I mean. If the faith was there this would be unnecessary. And if you don't have the faith, then how can you know THIS method would be reliable?

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Thank you for your abundant contributions. Certainly your faith would be firm as a rock if this method would always work. Then why not apply it for a month or so, for the sake of unshakable belief.

I think you are not convinced that it will work. But, in case this would not work, then positional spreads don't work either, because both concern a definite agreement with the unconscious.

I hope this post will get a lot of feedback, as this claim is quite fundamental to our understanding of tarot divination.

nuttyprofessor said:

Thank you for your abundant contributions. Certainly your faith would be firm as a rock if this method would always work. Then why not apply it for a month or so, for the sake of unshakable belief.

I think you are not convinced that it will work. But, in case this would not work, then positional spreads don't work either, because both concern a definite agreement with the unconscious.

I hope this post will get a lot of feedback, as this claim is quite fundamental to our understanding of tarot divination.

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Actually, I believe that almost any method of reading you choose to use will work if you are clear on what you intend to do before starting. I believe the powers that be that answer us through the cards (whatever we belief that is) want to answer us and will answer through pretty much any method we chose. And if there were some reason why a method you chose would not work, the cards would find a way to tell you. So no, I have no doubt that it would work if you choose to use it. Or if anyone would.

What touched me in the original post was the "Is it realistic to presume that we always get the right cards? I don't think so."

My belief is that we do always get the right cards no matter how we shuffle or what method we use.

My belief is that if we want an answer, life wants to give it to us and will do its best to do so. The only time I think we may not get the right answer is if we are maybe overtired and unfocused...not paying attention. Or if we repeatedly ask the same question over and over, at which point the cards may stop answering altogether.

But short of that and for whatever it's worth, my belief is that the right cards do always come up, no matter which methods we choose to use. And yes, also spreads do work. They work amazingly well too, although are not necessary to reading.

We differ on the source though. My personal belief is that the answers come from but that divination is a communication with the Divine, not so much the unconscious.

Sorry if I chose my words badly, or not sensitively enough.

For what it's worth, in case it helps, what I usually personally do instead of trying to FEEL when I have shuffled enough is to decide before I start to shuffle how many times I will do so. Whether 18 or 22, or whatever. Whatever number comes to mind. Then I ask the cards be properly aligned in that number of shuffles and stop when I get there.

Hope I didn't do it again and choose my wording badly.

Babs

It's a pity that it is just a belief, and no convinced knowing. In my opinion that means that at some times there will be little holes of doubt, in particular when a reading is of critical importance.

Our desire is that this is a perfect universe in which the divine hand rules everything, however, we people have free wills, so we can choose for right action and wrong action. And often, we are not even aware that we are doing wrong because of faulty conditioning. And it is not unlikely at all that this is also true for the way we handle tarot cards.

There has only be one respondent up until know, who claims that the signifier method works for her, and also for this assertion we have no hard proof.

So what rests is that I am going to experiment myself, and will present the result here. However, in the knowing that there is no paranormal scientific proof for tarot.

nuttyprofessor said:

So what rests is that I am going to experiment myself, and will present the result here. However, in the knowing that there is no paranormal scientific proof for tarot.

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Since I read a bit more analytically than intuitively and see interaction with the cards as "subconscious communion" and not the direct intervention of spiritual forces, I'm inclined to consider tarot reading a "SWAG" ("scientific wild-ass guess") method anyway. So experimentation is highly encouraged.

I find this thread very intriguing and enjoy reading everyones process. I personally don't use signficators myself because I would rather "play with the full deck" as they say. I do agree with Babs that a lot of shuffling is based on faith but also a clear head and direct thinking about your question. I once thought about the ocean trying to relax while shuffling and the image got lodged in my head, losing sight of my question, and the spread came up all cups. As Babs stated I knew in my gut something had gone wrong.

For me I shuffle until I feel a sort of tingle in my hands that seems to be the trigger for me. I then divide the deck into three piles and touch each one, whichever one seems the most charged to me becomes the top of my deck. So yea it has a lot to do with faith and intuition for me.

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My mind has been scientifically trained during my adolescence, and as a consequence (and notwithstanding the remarkable outcomes) the advocate of the devil turns up more than is desirable. So I shuffle 12 times, as 12 is a number that for me is related to divination, because heaven (universal intelligence) crosses with earth (tarot cards) in order to create the synchronistic happening. I hope that I will become sensitive enough to feel this tingle at the final shuffle.

Wow, a useful thread with a lot of relevant/interesting info. IMO, this entire topic of knowing when to stop shuffling, when you are "tuned in", is given nowhere near the the importance it should be given - reason being: no one really has a good answer to this basic problem. The exact situation arises when casting runes.

Anyway, I too have used the Case method (tho not AC's, as it seemed unnecessarily complex), and found it frustrating. Now I just depend on a set method of shuffling (six riffles and three cuts, done twice) and keep the question/situation in mind. Most often, this yields decent readings - if however the spread seems senseless, I just chalk it up to intuition being out-to-lunch, and don't read for a couple of days.