Lenormand, the diff between cross and coffin?

.traveller.

I was wondering what the interpretive difference was between the cross and the coffin in Lenormand decks? They seem very similar to me, I am using the Mystical Lenormand and the cross is a headstone and the coffin is a sarcophagus, so both have references to endings and eternal life. Can anyone explain these two cards to me?
 

ana luisa

I´m afraid I won´t be of much help to you. I love the Lenormands. All of them. I´ve been using them for ages but can´t assign particular meanings to them. I don´t think you should. It spoils the whole magic. Take a look at the coffin, for instance. It may be an end, but it may be a secret, hidden, it may talk about old things coming to life (if you think about mummies), it can talk about the old surviving the elements (mummies being embalmed), or how we cherish the old and leave the new behind (if you think about the treasures left alongside the sarcophagus). The list may go on forever. And mind you, that´s a card alone. Supposing you were to read it with others combined, then, you would have an infinite number of meanings. Crosses may stand for religion, reaching a standstill, a crossroads, not reaching an agreement (cross purposes), awakening spirituality, getting married at church, etc.Ýou may want to start by looking at the set meanings but please, try flying on your own. This amazing deck will certainly surprise you. One of the experienced members who work with the Mystical is Valeria, you could ask her for advice too.

Have fun!!
 

Sheri

Why thank you for the kind words, Ana! *blushing*

I can't agree with what Ana has posted more, .traveller.! In my own experience, I have never gotten an accurate reading from the cards using the LWB meanings. The real power in the deck (for me) has been using them intuitively. The best way to develop that is to use them. I started out doing daily draws and using that card draw to reflect on my day. Early on, we developed a rapport that I really can't explain. Then I expanded to 3 cards per day. Now I am using them for readings and for fun. Most recently, I have been using them in a new game we started in Oracle Readings called "Mystery Event" (very much like the Mystery Person game in the Tarot Games and Fun board). Once the Cross meant the Knights Templar, and once Coffin represented:

Originally posted by valeria:
Interestingly, for players, we have more symbols of Egypt. I believe that the showing of a sarcophagus here represents native pride. I also think it represents something that belongs to a native people that was taken by others - such as the taking of artifacts from Egyptian tombs by the British and other countries who went to Egypt and other places to take things (whether for noble study or not). The natives, although not in control (as discussed in previous card) are building/finding their sense of self and pride, and have begun to stand up for themselves and take back what is theirs.

The whole thread is here (Mystery Event #4).

The hard part about working with these cards is taking that "leap of faith" when stuff pops into your head as you read with them.

Here is the link to the Daily Draws that I started when I first got the cards. Please feel free to join in and post to that thread, or do readings with them as you have started doing :thumbsup:.

And if something pops into your head as you are reading - go with it and see where it takes you! :D Don't fear being wrong, we are all here learning together!

Blessings :)

valeria
 

.traveller.

Hmm, well I am pretty much going without the book at this point. So you both are saying that individual symbols mean absolutely nothing to you? So you would see a tree and a ship and each would mean nothing until they were next to another card? Maybe that's why I am confused, symbols always mean something to me but I see these two cards being the same in meaning. It doesn't make sense to have two cards with the same meaning in a deck.
 

Sheri

Hi .traveller. :)

Sorry for the confusion, you don't have to wait to have cards side by side to assign meanings to them. You can use the LWB if you want to.

All I was saying is that when I read with these cards, the meanings can vary with the context of the reading. For example, I might do a daily draw and get 23 Mice, which would mean one thing on one day and possibly something different on another day (for example, it might mean that I am tired, or it might mean I have been the victim of fraud or my identity has been stolen - or it could even mean a windfall if I am lead to interpret myself as one of the mice (versus the owner of the cheese or cheese itself)).

You can read with them as individuals, or you can read them as related to other cards. I believe the LWB leans heavily on card meanings varying based on relative positioning of the cards in a spread. I don't really do that, even though I might consider cards next to each other - are the figures facing each other or not? do they appear to be interacting?

You could think of Coffin like "afterlife" and Cross like "destiny". You are right, they do seem very similar - but think about what "death" meant to the Egyptians and what it meant to Europeans(? for lack of better term). In a reading though, these two symbols might mean something completely different than that though. Just be open to the possibilities and you will be able to use these cards for everything.

valeria
 

.traveller.

The only thing I am using the lwb for right now is a notebook. I've added all the playing card correspondences for reference and plan to add keywords for the astrological symbols that I am unfamiliar with. I decided to use a trick from tarot and use the cards themselves to tell me what the difference is. I asked, "what does the cross represent that the coffin does not?" and vis a versa. The anchor showed up with cross and the sickle appeared with the coffin and that cleared things up immensely. I just needed a base for reference. I am getting better with the combos and I actually had one come up recently cross->house->coffin which I interpreted as a church, a place where one is married and buried.
Thank you for your help :)
 

Sheri

Excellent, .traveller.! :D
 

MatPoint

Hi, you need to use keywords to read Lenormand. It was designed to be used that way. Lenormand doesn't work like Tarot. It is a different method based in the classic French Cartomancy as taught by Etteilla. If you use the Tarot approach to read Lenormand cards it will be very difficult to understand the message of the cards and you'll loose accuracy. So you need to work with Keywords not with the pictures. The pictures are there just to help you to remember the keywords.

This are the meanings I use.
The Cross. Destiny, Future, Karma, Grief.
The Coffin. Something approaching its end, sorrow, illness.

The Coffin and The Mice are significators for health, so you can combine them with the cards surrounding to be more specific.

Coffin or Mice + Birds = Headaches.
Coffin or Mice + Birds + Key = Same thing but even more painful.
Coffin or Mice + Clouds = Sight or Circulation
Coffin or Mice + Stars = Depression
Coffin or Mice + Moon = Psychic Illness
Mice + Coffin = Back pain
Coffin + Mice = Digestive problem ( so the order is also important)
and so on ...

They doesn't need to be one next to each other to be combined as long as they are in the same vertical or diagonal.

For instance:
Coffin + Mice + Lilies + Birds <-- Combining the first and the last card will give you the meaning while the cards in between will add detail to it.

Coffin + Birds = Headache
Mice + Lilies = Nervous, hectic situation.

Possible result: The seeker suffers from a headache caused by a hectic situation.

Hope it helps.
 

Bat Chicken

That helped me and I didn't ask the question! ;)
 

Sheri

Originally posted by MatPoint:
Hi, you need to use keywords to read Lenormand. It was designed to be used that way. Lenormand doesn't work like Tarot. It is a different method based in the classic French Cartomancy as taught by Etteilla. If you use the Tarot approach to read Lenormand cards it will be very difficult to understand the message of the cards and you'll loose accuracy. So you need to work with Keywords not with the pictures. The pictures are there just to help you to remember the keywords.

Thank you for sharing your technique, MatPoint, it looks interesting, but what you are describing doesn't make any sense to me. I have never used the Lenormand the way you are describing, and I have had excellent and accurate results. Using the keywords has never worked for me - but it is great that they work for you :)

As we are all different, our ways of working with our oracles will also vary. The only rule is that there are no rules.