Reading Waite-The Doctrine Behind the Veil

Because Waite is so often misunderstood, I thought it would be worth examining exactly what he does say and see what we think he means.

Here's the first sentence from Part II of PKT "The Tarot and Secret Tradition"

"The Tarot embodies symbolical presentations of universal ideas, behind which lie all the implicits of the human mind, and it is in this sense that they contain secret doctrine, which is the realization by the few of truths imbedded in the consciousness of all, though they have not passed into express recognition by ordinary men."

That's a mouthful. In fact it would probably help if the key ideas that he expresses in this one sentence were identified as a numbered list and in plain English. Then it would be easier to see if we understand and/or agree with any or all of them. Anyone want to do this? Do any of the terms need to be defined more clearly?

Mary

A first cut at parsing Waite's sentence

1. Tarot presents symbols of universal ideas
2. Universal ideas are imbedded in everyone's mind
3. However, not everyone understands these ideas or has access to them on a conscious level
4. Therefore, the symbols/ideas appear to be "secret" to ordinary people

What I'd find really handy is a reference to the websites that have whatever document is under discussion and any additional reference material. I'm still new enough that I'm not up to speed on all the acronyms and probably can't find all of Waite's original writings without a little kind help.

I've downloaded most of the material from

http://www.tarot.org.il/Library/English.html

and that has a copy of the Pictorial Key to the Tarot. This is what we are discussing, yes?

universal ideas

That quote sounds very "Jungian" to me, archetypes and the collective unconscious, of which most people are not aware. I look forward to this study. I gave up on the book a while ago, and now hope to learn more in dialog with all of you. Thanks for doing this! BB, Michael

"The Tarot embodies symbolical presentations of universal ideas, behind which lie all the implicits of the human mind, and it is in this sense that they contain secret doctrine, which is the realization by the few of truths imbedded in the consciousness of all, though they have not passed into express recognition by ordinary men."

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Wizzle did a great job of summarizing the ideas in the sentence. I'd like to look at them a little more closely - by going back to the dictionary and seeing what Waite actually meant by his choice of words. BTW, Waite used words very, very precisely and usually with an awareness of all the layers that a word implies.

1. The human mind contains twisted/embedded/enfolded (see the word root of implicit) truths that are generalized as universal ideas (as tarobones says - archetypes of the collective unconscious).
2. Because of their multi-layeredness these ideas are best expressed symbolically.
3. Behind their [literal?] appearance lies deeper principles (doctrine - a principle taught, advanced, or accepted, as by a group of philosophers; from a root meaning "to cause to accept").
4. They are secret only in so far as not all humans recognize them, because they are not 'entirely clear and unambiguous' (see meanings of 'express').

One of the questions becomes why have they "not passed into express (clear and unambiguous) recognition"? In part, because they are best expressed symbolically - that is, by a thing that represents something else. This suggests that 'ordinary people' do not see 'symbolically.'

Anyone else?

Mary

Teheuti said:

Wizzle did a great job of summarizing the ideas in the sentence. I'd like to look at them a little more closely - by going back to the dictionary and seeing what Waite actually meant by his choice of words. BTW, Waite used words very, very precisely and usually with an awareness of all the layers that a word implies.

1. The human mind contains twisted/embedded/enfolded (see the word root of implicit) truths that are generalized as universal ideas (as tarobones says - archetypes of the collective unconscious).
2. Because of their multi-layeredness these ideas are best expressed symbolically.
3. Behind their [literal?] appearance lies deeper principles (doctrine - a principle taught, advanced, or accepted, as by a group of philosophers; from a root meaning "to cause to accept").
4. They are secret only in so far as not all humans recognize them, because they are not 'entirely clear and unambiguous' (see meanings of 'express').

One of the questions becomes why have they "not passed into express (clear and unambiguous) recognition"? In part, because they are best expressed symbolically - that is, by a thing that represents something else. This suggests that 'ordinary people' do not see 'symbolically.'

Anyone else?

Mary

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Wizzle did give an excellent start.

I believe that symbols were used because they can convey multi layered/level ideas with a minimum of fuss. It also allows the student to move at their own pace as the symbols reveal themselves over time. And since all thoughts & ideas start as symbols rather than words symbols are man's primary language....

Waite's Christian orientation of allegory?

A.Waite's Quote:
"The Tarot embodies symbolical presentations of universal ideas,"

1.Cerulean's view:
I think of his most Christian definition of "body, embodiment"

Definition:
Body is defined most commonly in terms of the human body, the material frame of man, viewed as an organic entity. Though it sometimes refers only to the main portion of an animal or unit, it may also refer to a series of organized units, a collective whole, of things or persons. Within science it refers to any substance, simple or compound, solid, liquid or gaseous. Within Christian texts the body is understood as the sacrament, the metaphorical body of Christ. To Embody is to put into a body an idea or spirit, to give a concrete form to or to express (principles, thoughts, or intentions) within art, action, word combinations, or institutions. Thus, an embodiment of an idea or principle is its physical form, realization or expression, or the incarnation of that idea.

http://chicagoschoolmediatheory.net/glossary2004/bodyembodiment.htm

Cerulean suggests:
and while I believe that Papus through Oswald Wirth, Waite and later, Manly P. Hall believed that there were comparable card systems or divination systems from other cultures that 'embodied' the same ideals and psychological constructs. Thus, they believed tarot was a visual encoding of 'universal' symbolism.

B. Waite's Quote:
"behind which lie all the implicits of the human mind"

Definition:
(ĭm-plĭs'ĭt)
adj.

1. Implied or understood though not directly expressed: an implicit agreement not to raise the touchy subject.
2. Contained in the nature of something though not readily apparent: “Frustration is implicit in any attempt to express the deepest self” (Patricia Hampl).
3. Having no doubts or reservations; unquestioning: implicit trust.

Cerulean's suggestion
I think he was using the first and second definition in perhaps the same way I would use "beliefs or thoughts not fully understood"...

C. Waite's Quote:
, and it is in this sense that they contain secret doctrine, which is the realization by the few of truths imbedded in the consciousness of all,

Cerulean's view:

I think I'm jumping ahead.

I wonder if Waite's ideas of realization might have been in context with perhaps a 1909-1910 movement that might have been a European Christian view' of realization...

...as expressed by a kindly-meant-for-the-time evangelical preacher about 1910...it seems this speech was in Edinburough and while this source was a Western American, do you think it helpful in shedding light to Waite's definition of realization and 'truths' --- which might be defined in terms of Christian allegory?

http://www.mun.ca/rels/restmov/texts/wwarren/ccr/CCR15O2.HTM

This pastoral message was leading toward "Christianity is the only universal religion." Perhaps I'm confusing the issue and I'll delete these bits if not relevant to analyzing the quote.

D. Waite's quote:
"though they have not passed into express recognition by ordinary men"

Cerulean's view:

My guess is Waite is saying immediate and clear interpretation and reading by the mundane individual. Do you think Waite was describing his view ordinary individuals seeing tarot images 'through a mirror darkly' from their unenlightened soul and mundane eyes?

Please excuse me if I made the waters murky and added things not pertinant to the discussion. I was just trying to be clear from the context that I thought Waite was coming from in his Western European and Christian viewpoints of around 1910.

Regards,

Cerulean

Cerulean said:

A.Waite's Quote:
"The Tarot embodies symbolical presentations of universal ideas,"
. . . Thus, an embodiment of an idea or principle is its physical form, realization or expression, or the incarnation of that idea.
. . . they believed tarot was a visual encoding of 'universal' symbolism.

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Definitely. Good reference.

B. Waite's Quote:
"behind which lie all the implicits of the human mind"
(Re: implicit meaning) "Implied or understood though not directly expressed"

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Yes. A symbol implies meanings that are not directly expressed. Mystical literature is all about the implied meanings and experiences - not the literal statements and images (though they may be important in their own right).

C. Waite's Quote:
"and it is in this sense that they contain secret doctrine, which is the realization by the few of truths imbedded in the consciousness of all"
.... I wonder if Waite's ideas of realization might have been in context with perhaps a 1909-1910 movement that might have been a European Christian view' of realization...
.... which might be defined in terms of Christian allegory?
http://www.mun.ca/rels/restmov/texts/wwarren/ccr/CCR15O2.HTM
This pastoral message was leading toward "Christianity is the only universal religion." Perhaps I'm confusing the issue.

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If you are referring to this minister's conclusion:
"the time will come when all God's people will be tuned and brought under the control of the keyboard of Christian unity." (keyboard of a church organ), I don't think Waite had such an integrative view at all. As a matter of fact, I'd say Waite was very elitist by contrast.

D. Waite's quote:
"though they have not passed into express recognition by ordinary men"
... Do you think Waite was describing his view [of] ordinary individuals seeing tarot images 'through a mirror darkly' from their unenlightened soul and mundane eyes?

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Probably.

Please excuse me if I made the waters murky and added things not pertinant to the discussion. I was just trying to be clear from the context that I thought Waite was coming from in his Western European and Christian viewpoints of around 1910.

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It's all grist for the mill. I tend to focus on Waite's statements in his other works (including the Lévi translations) and on dictionary meanings since he used words so precisely - but it's certainly worth considering other currents of thought.

BTW, one source that I haven't plumbed yet is the book "Cloud of Unknowing" in whichever version Waite himself read (I believe Isabelle Steiger (sp?) did it). This work was a major influence on Waite.

Mary

2nd Sentence

Feel free to continue commenting on the first sentence, but I thought I'd go ahead and post the 2nd sentence for those who want to do a little research or contemplation:

2nd Sentence -
"The theory is that this doctrine has always existed--that is to say, has been excogitated in the consciousness of an elect minority; that it has been perpetuated in secrecy from one to another and has been recorded in secret literatures, like those of Alchemy and Kabalism; that it is contained also in those Instituted Mysteries of which Rosicrucianism offers an example near to our hand in the past, and Craft Masonry a living summary, or general memorial, for those who can interpret its real meaning."

Note: Excogitated means that they came up with something (an idea, explanation, principle) through deep, careful and thorough mental effort and reflection. It's like the result of intense research and intuitive genius that results in a new theory or vision - like the double helix, etc.

Most of Waite's other books are based on this sentence. In essence, he summarizes in his other books - on alchemy, Kabbalah, Rosicrucianism, Masonry, Mysticism, the Grail, etc., etc., - what remains of the "secret literatures" and points out the keys to their deeper meanings - which cannot be truly revealed through words but only through personal, individual experience.

This reminds me of a couple of situations where I've been witness to one person explaining that a certain Greek text is actually a description of and guide to mystical vision and the other person has said, "but that's not what he *says*." In other words, because the author didn't explicitly say - "this is what you do to enter the other realms" then it is not what the author intended, despite the fact that other mystics/shamans can clearly recognize the description because they've been there themselves. As an example, see Peter Kingsley's books on Parmenides - _In the Dark Places of Wisdom_ and _Reality_. This is not exactly what Waite is doing (except perhaps in his poetry) - but the idea is similar.

Anyone know what Waite meant by "Instituted Mysteries"? I have a response but I'll leave it to later.

Mary

tarobones said:

That quote sounds very "Jungian" to me, archetypes and the collective unconscious, of which most people are not aware. I look forward to this study. I gave up on the book a while ago, and now hope to learn more in dialog with all of you. Thanks for doing this! BB, Michael

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Yes, that was exactly what came to mind for me. Universal archetypes - or Platonic ideas ... however you want to put it, exist within us all. Most of us live lives in which we remain unconscious of these forces ... only a few explore and question them.

mythos

Oops Wish I'd read the entire thread before I'd jumped in with my excited, but innane drivel.

From Dion Fortune

I just read a bit in Dion Fortune's book, The Sea Priestess which I think speaks well on this point Tehueti made

One of the questions becomes why have they "not passed into express (clear and unambiguous) recognition"? In part, because they are best expressed symbolically - that is, by a thing that represents something else. This suggests that 'ordinary people' do not see 'symbolically.'

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Fortune says (about an obscure image being painted by the hero)

The outward eye saw coloured shadows; it was out of one's knowledge one completes the picture. If one knew nothing, one saw nothing. If one knew something, one saw a lot.

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Symbols, whether of the tarot or other system of knowledge, open to us based on what we know and only to the degree of our understanding. Thus, I'd say that all people see symbolically, but that some see more than others. To those who see very little, the potential of the symbols is secret.